What's going on with P3D

[wizzards 99]

this article make,s interesting reading,this is a clip from the start ,link provided,don't you think its terrible that the devious LM told porkies to MS about producing a training Sim,when all the time they wanted it for a marketing campaign ,as I have been a supported since v1.3! I am still waiting for my P3d goody bag and P3d cap from the marketing guys,I would imagine the article has more than a grain of truth in it  

 

(ORLANDO, Fla. — Nov. 30, 2009 — Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) and Microsoft Corp. entered into an intellectual property (IP) licensing agreement that allows Lockheed Martin to further develop the Microsoft ESP PC-based visual simulation software platform to better train warfighters for battle.)

 

https://news.microsoft.com/2009/11/30/lockheed-martin-microsoft-agreement-to-bring-better-training-to-warfighters/

 

peter

[Flying Penguin 44]

Do we need ..

60 FPS in all views, 64bit, monster PC's, DX12, etc? Of course not..

We need more immersion! We need software that runs on 'normal' PC's so that everyone can run the software on basic PC's. We need to show that this hobby of ours does not have to rip our wallets for all to enjoy.

 

On the flip side, today's monster PC is 18 months in the future's moderately capable good value PC....

 

It would be nice to have a sim capable of using all the modern bells and whistles.  We already have sims capable of running on "basic" pcs, FS9 for example.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

Really....A couple thousand copies?? Where on earth do you people come up with this kind of garbage. Have you guys ever looked at LM's web sites and at all the different projects they are involved in and more important how many of those projects relate to using P3D for training. Warning...it will take more than 2 minutes of your time.

 

Garbage? I suggest you watch your language, Sir.

 

Simple numbers really. For statistical purposes you could for example use the number of forum topics about P3D here. And 50.000 copies would still only be "a couple of" that won't even cover expenses.

 

And the point was, as to why sell P3D as a stand alone product - when at the same time the licensing limits the access to it, it is not widely advertised, is developed slowly with limited resources, has an update strategy that disgregards the existence of addons. All this smacks of fixed budget and the hand of someone "marketing". In my book, P3D does not have the markings of a real end-user-(mass)-market-product, sorry. Much more like individual software that gets tailored to whatever implementation is needed for a specific project, ESP being an open platform and all.

 

But what makes sense and what does not is highly individual of course. And it does not even matter where the budget comes from, as long as we can enjoy the the results. If it is PR money it's all for the better, so the project is not so much dependant on success in sales figures.

 

 

And let round 6 of wild speculation begin ... "marketing gig" that's a new one so you get a +1 for creativity.

 

 

Thank you, but I can't take that credit... that would be the guy in post #96...

[Wobbie 938]

 

And the point was, as to why sell P3D as a stand alone product - when at the same time the licensing limits the access to it, it is not widely advertised, is developed slowly with limited resources, has an update strategy that disgregards the existence of addons. All this smacks of fixed budget and the hand of someone "marketing". In my book, P3D does not have the markings of a real end-user-(mass)-market-product, sorry. Much more like individual software that gets tailored to whatever implementation is needed for a specific project, ESP being an open platform and all.

 

Kind sir, P3D is not being sold as a mass market product, nor was ESP.

P3D is pretty much a niche product, sold 'not for entertainment'.

As we all know, these products ARE stand-alone products, enhanced by add-on developers &, with the right hardware, sold by firms such as Red Bird, as fully fledged simulators.. Frasca, as well, does a sim, FCC licensed, using P3D!

[mgh 89]

 

 

Garbage? I suggest you watch your language, Sir.

Simple numbers really. For statistical purposes you could for example use the number of forum topics about P3D here. And 50.000 copies would still only be "a couple of" that won't even cover expenses.

Some people may call it rubbish - I couldn't possibly comment.

 

You realise that there actually is a real world outside AVSIMs forums? As Lockheed Martin has regularly stated:

The agreement provides Lockheed Martin with access to the ESP technology portfolio enabling the company to build cost-effective simulation solutions for customized training for its worldwide customers. Lockheed Martin’s software development teams will extend the current capabilities of ESP to enable a whole new suite of innovative ESP-based solutions that will evolve beyond flight training to include ground and civil agency applications.

https://news.microsoft.com/2009/11/30/lockheed-martin-microsoft-agreement-to-bring-better-training-to-warfighters/

 

That's where the money is coming from - not from a few enthusiasts in these forums.

[longrangecruise 57]

I am also wondering what's going on. At the moment there is sale after sale on all platforms. Should we still get some sceneries and addons or rather wait?
As far as I understand a possible 64 version would need some recoding of addons. Scereries should be easier to adopt. Is that correct?
 

Edited July 16, 2015 by n4gix
Deleted the stutter (repeat of same text)

[mgh 89]

 

 

am also wondering what's going on. At the moment there is sale after sale on all platforms. Should we still get some sceneries and addons or rather wait?

 

What Prepar3D sales - or you referreing to FSX-SE?

[longrangecruise 57]

I mean the sales of addons on simmarket, aerosoft, pc-aviator etc. for P3D (and FSX)

[Noel 4,492]

P3D has been effectively frozen for almost a year now since the 2.3 release where lots of progress had been made in many areas.    The model of making incremental changes necessitating 3P devs to keep recreating installers seems such as waste of everyone's time and effort.  I'd rather see LM publish a rough roadmap so that devs and users know what they have and what to expect coming up down the road when meaningful changes are planned to be made.   Since they aren't in this apparently for mass public consumption they could do this, publish a roadmap, unless they have no idea what their end game really is, pardon the pun.   Very fortunately for all of us it's great for simpler stuff, i.e. non PMDG flights where OOM's reign supreme and kill the joy in large part.   It's a big world w/ more and more programming talent coming out of India and other countries--perhaps someone will come out w/ a new FS aimed at the consumer market.  Using this basic model could make a lot of sense:

• Build a new DX12 optimized, multicore optimized, 64 bit 3D engine, includes ultra high resolution mesh, and that's about it!  Publish the anticipated service life of this core product is ~7 years.  This lets everyone know whatever they develop will have a platform to develop for for 7 years at least.
• SDK's out to all major 3PDs who develop content for:
  • Airplanes
  • 3D objects
  • Scenery
  • ATC
  • Miscellaneous

​This model allows the core engine developer to produce product for at least 7 years w/ only minor updates to solve issues, we hope.  And lets content developers know up front what the roadmap is, taking care to make sure all bug fixes don't kill existing content--this probably is exceedingly naive on my part, but I don't really know.

 

Sounds familiar doesn't it? It's almost what FSX was--no meaningful changes for years and years, and look at all the content that ensued.

 

Just idle prattle, but it's what I'd like to see unfold. 

[JJJackson 22]

longrangecruise..........

 

Aersosoft, no sales for 2.5, Simmarket ONLY airports from more or less unknown developers, PC-aviator no sales for 2.5! 

 

Jack

the Swede from Spain

[AviatorMoser 353]

• Build a new DX12 optimized, multicore optimized, 64 bit 3D engine, includes ultra high resolution mesh, and that's about it!  Publish the anticipated service life of this core product is ~7 years.  This lets everyone know whatever they develop will have a platform to develop for for 7 years at least.

 

I like this idea! It'll take a while to make though. I'm patient and if they pulled it off, I would actually consider purchasing Prepar3D.

 

Legally speaking, LM is licensed to redistribute FMX as a free download for P3D owners if they'd like (doubtful). Would have to be a separate from the main P3D installer though (no commercialization clause).

[dan777 0]

A lot of folks have gotten interested in avation buy using Microsoft flight simulator over the years, many of those folks went on to become real pilots, myself included. Once Microsoft pulled out of this arena, LM felt it was in their best interest to maintain a flight platform that was available to as many folks as possible. So, it is a marketing tool only in the sense it is intended to spur interest in aviation, and hopefully generate the pilots of the furture that will fly their aircraft. Also a great introduction to flying for the new Flight Cadets wanting to become pilots, offers them a platform to learn the basics, at a reasonable cost, and can also be developed for other types of training.

 

I can certainly appreciate that LM took on and developed a business unit within its vast organization, solely dedicated to further advance the “desktop” flight simulator series as a training avenue, for us aspiring future aviators, both young and the “not” so young…lol…I can also agree that it is marketing tool for their products as they are manufacturers of aircraft, military and some commercial. 

 

That said, I’m curious why has LM ventured into this arena and why not other aircraft manufacturers in the likes of Boeing, Airbus, etc., to name a few of the big players, then there’s also the big carriers like Delta, American, United, SW, etc., to name a few big domestic, then there’s international carriers in the in the likes of Lufthansa, British Airways, etc.,

 

It certainly would be nice for LM to bump the code someday to 64 bit, but I'll take my 2.5 code any day and hope they stay the course and continue to fund further development into this ever dwindling world of desktop computing that someday may just be history, & hopefully there is life after Windows 10... 

 

Dan

[MartinRex007 390]

"That said, I'm curious why has LM ventured into this arena and why not other aircraft manufacturers in the likes of Boeing, Airbus, etc"

 

 

LM already has some very sophisticated simulation software, and they have been in the military/Civ training space for a long time, so developing P3D is right down their ally. But you have to get folks interested in flying/aviation before you can train them. This is not something I would think fits into the business model of Boeing, Airbus etc....that would be my guess!

[vgbaron 3,590]

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense/training-logistics.html

 

Spend a little time in the above link - look at the number of different training venues available and think how P3D is being used in many of them.

 

just the tip of the iceberg. LM has been in training and logistics using simulators for years. The only NEW thing is that they licensed the ESP engine from MS. The benefit TO US SIMMERS - is that they were smart enough to realize that they had a slew of experienced users, many of which have technical backgrounds (Rob, et al) who could provide excellent feedback (beta testing) for their commercial product.

 

Why some of you see this as a ploy or a whim is beyond me. LM is a MAJOR player in training and SIMULATION and they have been for years. For as long as it lasts, we should enjoy what is happening. One should never say never but it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that LM will EVER release a retail, home oriented entertainment product but as long as we are included in the commercial releases - enjoy.

 

My honest fear is that LM will tire of the incessant whining that comes from many in the sim community and decide they don't need to put up with it - and the plug could get pulled for all except those who have the $$$ to purchase a higher priced product.

 

For now, I feel we are still of value to LM but when I read some of the posts on various forums, I must say that I cringe a little.

 

Vic

[Noel 4,492]

With all of the tools and acquired knowledge as of now, including incredibly detailed satellite and mapping data, advanced programming, DX12 coming out, and so much more it strikes me that building a brand new platform as described above would be considerably quicker to pull off than when FS was first developed w/ all its subsequent major releases.   I guess the demand just isn't there, but even that I'm not so sure isn't a moving target as well.   If you took something like what we see coming out of Outerra or other and get into some serious accuracy & quality for VFR the market could get much bigger.  Perhaps a model employing streaming of very high resolution 3D scenery, photo real in 3D.   Charge a monthly access fee or what have you.  I liken it to what iPhone did to the smartphone market which soared after its debut I believe.  You'd have to have a much more solid platform though where users don't need to do the nonsense required to keep up w/ P3D, its legacy compatibility and all that that entails, etc.  You can tell I've had enough of that part!