Hawker systems fixes... come get 'em!

[C525B 86]

I noticed that the annunciator panels in the Hawker VC are all 2-D XML gauges.  I messed around with them and was able to build to give the appearance that the systems are functioning as they should be.  In particular, this should give you a (mostly) correct simulation of the electrical system.

 

 

Read below and then PM me to receive the files (I will only distribute the files if you own the Carenado H850XP).

 

 

 

Fixed!

 

- The alternators now power the pitot/vane heat and windscreen heat on the respective sides as appropriate.

 

- FUEL LO PRESS annunciators are now tied to the Fuel Pumps, which are simulated correctly with regard to the electrical system (more on that below).

.

- I simulated the different DC buses and the effect of the generators, APU, external power, bus tie, battery contactors

 

- I simulated the AC buses, the inverters, and their relationship to the DC buses.

 

- DEEC annunciators now tied correctly to the position of the ENG CMPTR switches.

 

- Adjusted the cold & dark setup via Carenado's gauge to reflect correct switch positions.

 

 

 

Can't be fixed! (Thanks, Carenado... :rolleyes:):

- The alternator switches in the VC are hard-coded to operate the generators in FS.  In reality, the alternators only exist as an independent power source for the windscreen heat and the pitot/vane heat.

 

- The VOLT/AMP meters are also coded in the model, so the indications are all wrong.

 

- Same with the CABIN and DUCT TEMP gauges

 

- The BUS TIE switch should be a momentary contact switch (like the GEN switches), but Carenado made it an on/off switch.  I tried to work around that the best I could.

 

- The CABIN FLOOD/CABIN FLOOR switches should be momentary contact switches also.  The purpose of these switches is to allow you to incrementally open valves which direct the amount of conditioned air flowing through the floor/ceiling vents.  The position of the valves is indicated by the little green LED lights above the switch.  Unfortunately, since these are just modeled as on-off switches in the VC, you can't really make this happen in the sim.  Same with the F/DK VLV switch (this one allows you to pump extra heat into the cockpit).

 

- MAIN AIR VLV switches should have a middle position, for LP ON.  In practice I think they're pretty much open or closed, though, so it doesn't matter.

 

- APU...well, you can turn it on and off and run the fire test, but other than that....it's all coded to the model.

 

 

 

Too lazy to fix...yet...

 

- Each generator should come online when the respective engine finishes its start cycle--provided the generator was not manually tripped--but I haven't figured out the script for that just yet (XML collaborators welcome!)  For now you'll have to close each GEN contactor after engine start.

 

- Avionics items that are AC-powered should be "failed" until you establish the appropriate AC power source, but I haven't started on the Pro Line yet.

 

 

How the **** do I use all this stuff?

You should read about the Hawker systems on SmartCockpit, or download the files from Scribd that were mentioned elsewhere in this forum. 

 

 

Here's a basic run-down on the electrical system:

 

The Hawker has three (3) DC electrical buses:  PS1 - PE - PS2.  PS1 and PS2 are the main DC buses, powered by the respective #1/2 generator, primarily.  They can be connected via the bus tie.  The bus tie can only be closed if you have one of APU gen, Gen 1, or Gen 2 operating.  If the bus tie is open, you will see the amber annunciator on the overhead.

 

PE bus is the battery bus.  There are two batteries on the Hawker.  Each battery is connected to the electrical system by two different contactors (i.e. relays).  If one of these is open (which will be the case until you have APU power, or engine generators running), you will see a BATT 1/2 CNTCTR annunciator.  You can also "turn off" one of the batteries by isolating it with the BATT ISOLATE switch, which will open both of the contactors belonging to a specific battery and turn on the respective BATT 1/2 CNTCTR annunciator.

 

The APU gen only feeds the PS2 bus, so you will need to close the bus tie in order to power everything with the APU.

 

The AC electrical system consists of three buses: XS1 - XE - XS2.  There are three inverters, which take power from the DC system and make it AC: INV 1 - STBY - INV 2.  INV 1 takes power from the DC PS1 bus, INV 2 takes power from PS2, and the STBY INV takes power from PE bus.  The annunciators on the far right side of the overhead indicate the status of the AC buses and the inverters.

 

The three AC buses are connected by a series of relays, so one main inverter (INV 1 or INV 2) can supply all three AC buses.  However, if both main inverters fail, the STBY INV exists to power the XE bus.  XE bus supplies the AC items which are essential the avionics (remember, I haven't simulated this yet).  You can check that the STBY INV is functional with the following preflight test: place the STBY INV switch to ARM with INV 1/2 OFF.  You should see the XE FAIL light go out and the white STBY INV light turn on.  Once you have main electrical power via the APU, engine generator, or external power...start INV 1 or INV 2 and verify that a single inverter extinguishes the three XS1/XE/XS2 bus lights and deactivates STBY INV.

 

 

...and one note about the fuel pumps:

The electric fuel pumps are normally powered by PS1 and PS2 buses, respectively.  The APU draws fuel from the left engine fuel pipe.  So, if you want to start the APU and you only have battery power.........anybody?  Raise your hands?  No one read the manuals yet?  You guuuuyyyyyss....

 

...The EMERG position of each FUEL PUMP switch powers that pump from the PE (battery bus).  So, if you're going to start the APU on battery power only, you would have to click the left fuel pump switch all the way to the down position.  If you try to turn the fuel pumps to the ON position on battery power alone, you will not be able to extinguish the FUEL PRESS annunciators.  Likewise, if you're doing a battery start for the main engines, the fuel pumps should be in EMERG, and then placed to ON once you have generator power established.

[aerostar 42]

C525B thanks for your work on this....

 

Can flying direct to a waypoint be fixed, do you think ?

 

cheers

aero

[ArturWashton 3]

It's a blessing that you guys, pretty smart on programing, are doing quite well on this particular bird; thank you all for your time and expertise applied to this wonderful aircraft. One of these days Carenado will learn how to do this kind of programing correctly, but in the meanwhile... I share your passion for this.

 

Gratefully.

 

Art.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

I noticed that the annunciator panels in the Hawker VC are all 2-D XML gauges

 

PM sent huge thanks - now if you could work some magic with FLC - that would be something

[C525B 86]

Honestly, if I did anything coding-wise to the autopilot, it would probably be just to remove many of the custom functions because that's likely what's preventing it from capturing an altitude reliably...   

 

I find myself resorting to V/S mode even with some of the more sophisticated commercial add-ons.  It's not that uncommon to climb that way in the real world either in a corporate jet...I speak from experience.  It doesn't have the idiot-proofing of FLC but it's much more consistent and gives a smoother ride for the pax when you see FLC starting to hunt around.

 

PM's replied.

[tgarris56 1]

Downloaded the files tonight.  Can't wait to install these modifications to the electrical system and give them a go.  Will have to wait for the weekend....  hoping to post a new startup video with more realistic checklist procedures in place.  Thanks very much for working on these improvements. 

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Downloaded the files tonight.  Can't wait to install these modifications to the electrical system and give them a go.  Will have to wait for the weekend....  hoping to post a new startup video with more realistic checklist procedures in place.  Thanks very much for working on these improvements. 

 

Way to go Tim

[Daveebee 0]

Hi C525B, Hi, I  must say I find it a bit strange addressing you in this way,it sounds like I'm talking to a robot and I'm sure you are not., About 7 weeks ago I bought this aircraft from Flightsim store in order to progress from the Majestic Q400 Dash8 (it works very well on my system) The XP850 however has not got off the ground yet due to a frame rate of less than 1 (.3 actually) fps. It is installed in P3D v2.5+ (latest hotfix installed). I know a lot of people swear by this aircraft ,while some have my problem of slow frame rate. Do you think it possible that this aircraft is NOT suitable for P3D? Carenado,it would seem, are too preoccupied elsewhere to be of any assistance in this matter. I want to start flying a business jet with updateable (Navigraph) so may have to look elsewhere if I cannot get this aircraft flying soon. It  will be a pity, I may have to wait for Eaglesoft to bring out their Citation X for P3D v2.5

[C525B 86]

Davebee,

 

I don't use P3D.  I still use FSX, and I just upgraded my gaming computer a few months ago, so I'm having no performance issues with the Hawker.  I can't really help you with this one.  There are some other threads in this forum you should check out about the performance problems.   ^_^ 

[X24 15]

@C525B Thanks for the modified files - they work really well and after getting used to the overhead panel working the way it used to, now I'm getting used to it worked the way it is supposed to. Fantastic - thanks!

[Eric Tomlin 10]

 

 

It's not that uncommon to climb that way in the real world either in a corporate jet...I speak from experience.  It doesn't have the idiot-proofing of FLC but it's much more consistent and gives a smoother ride for the pax when you see FLC starting to hunt around.

 

Glad to see you write this. I've read this many times regarding real-world systems that have Flight Level Change not working very smoothly and "hunting" as well. Therefore, when it doesnt work so well in the sim, it's actually kind of realistic :-)

[C525B 86]

Resurrecting this thread because I've been getting a lot of requests for the files lately.  Can any P3D users report back about compatibility?  This mod was only tested in FSX originally and I haven't received any feedback on it.  In particular, I have no idea what is required for P3dv4 adaptation, so I can't say what changes Carenado may have made.

[bakerman 31]

David

I just made some tests in P3Dv4 and your fixes! I can report on the first take everyting is working right!
Deep testing is following :-)

Bruno

[C525B 86]

On 7/18/2017 at 1:08 AM, bakerman said:

David

I just made some tests in P3Dv4 and your fixes! I can report on the first take everyting is working right!
Deep testing is following :-)

Bruno

Thanks Bruno.  Deep testing is probably not necessary since the improvements are not that deep