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Simmer2050

Flight1 GTN and charts, can i stick with default p3d nav data

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Hi

 

Looking to start using charts sid stars, in part cause flight1 gtn looks very user friendly.

 

I would like to keep default p3d nav data if possible, but not sure how my flight plans will be affected,  nav tools I use

 

1. Fscommander

2.GTN

 

I am a bit confused as to how keeping default p3d nav data will affect the use of these 2 tools, considering I plan to use charts

 

thanks for the education in advance, I understand everything about the sim , but never got my head around what happens when using addons with different nav data.

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You can not create a flightplan in the default GPS and import it into GTN. I don't believe you can use FSCommander either. You must create the plan IN the GTN using the navdata in the GTN. For the most part you will be fine but you may find some smaller airports that show in P3D that do NOT exist in the GTN database.

 

I've run into a few but for the most part, after creating the plan in the GTN, IU've had no issues.

 

Where you may notice a difference - say you create a plan in FSC and print it out. You then manually input the plan into the GTN - you *may* find that a navaid or small airport is not available in the GTN and you have to manually adjust. Other than that, I've had no issues.

 

Vic


 

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excellent detailed info, thanks.

 

I like the more reliable option of creating flight plan in GTN.

 

But if I have to do this manually for each waypoint in flight plan, ill have to take my chances with flight plans I do from FsCommander and PFPX  for heavies.

 

Lockeed really needs to, after fixing VAS, make P3D nav data updatable to same as add-ons.

 

Already I have always  check nav data, afcads etc to ensure I can actually go to a destination ICAO without any NASTY nav data YEH RIGHT SUPRISES !!!! on approach , like vid said, example destination airport not present in sim!!!!(very funny) or ILS at some comedy angle to runway, makes for interesting approach after a 3 hour flight.

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To make the nav data updateable, so would all the runway markings, airfields, airports, navaids. 

 

It's wholly unrealistic to expect L-M to make those kind of wholesale changes on a frequent basis - or else why didn't Microsoft with FS2004 and FSX ?

 

There are limitations with all external navdata and updateable data sets. This is a project for the scenery artistes and developers as it's relatively easy to overwrite the base data with updated information - if done as a complete package.

 

Better still would be if Flight 1 didn't rely on Garmins' data, which is always out of step with BOTH navadata updates and P3D internal data, but had an option for the GPS to read what is actually in the sim.

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YES THAT IS THE ANSWER GTN and other addons LIKE PMDG ETC should have option to use sims nav data, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN YOU FLYING IN SIM AND NOT REAL WORLD.

 

That is the best idea, and almost sounds silly that its not done for the Sim the GTN  is

expected to work in.

 

All this easily fixed inconsistencies making this hobby require too much skills

 

Buy a plane , buy some tool, THEN YOU GOT TO RUN AROUND LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT NAV DATA, does not make sense.

 

 

If I recall old pmdg and wilco fmc's used to have option to use fsx nav data, but I have not checked this recently

 

WE NEED TO GET ADDON DEVS TO REDUCE THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS MESS

 

PLEASE ADD OPTION TO USE NAV DATA FROM SIM I WILL BE FLYING IN PLEASE, UNLESS I CHOOSE TO TAKE MY SIM PLANE INTO THE REAL WORLD

REAL WORLD NAV DATA NOT MUCH USE TO ME, BUT A LOT CONFUSION.

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Better still would be if Flight 1 didn't rely on Garmins' data, which is always out of step with BOTH navadata updates and P3D internal data, but had an option for the GPS to read what is actually in the sim.

Flight1 is simply displaying what the Garmin Trainer itself provides using its own internal database.

 

It simply is not possible to do what you suggest.

 

Now, that said it is entirely possible for software that is actually programmed wholly in house to use the default sim's database. The Universal UNS-1F from Eaglesoft and Milviz will use either the sim's database or the Navigraph database.

 

In the same vein, it would be labor and cost prohibitive for Lockheed-Martin to completely gut the existing "database" (which is scattered amongst thousands of compiled BGL files), and replace it with an entirely new and "updatable" database.


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556

Interests: Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling for Milviz

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`Not possible` - do not get that. It's only software.

 

It is entirely possible to recompile the P3D database in a format that could be read by the Flight 1 Garmin product - it's purely a matter of getting the data into a format that could be read by the software - after all, several enterprising simmers were able to adapt the newer Garmin dataset between Flight 1 version releases to read the newer data - it actually wasn't that difficult.

 

So `impossible`, no.

 

Likely I agree, not, given how intertwined the Flight 1 product is with Garmin and the dataset. I must admit another of the reluctances for stumping up for this purchase is the strange choice of ONLY using the Garmin data, which is not representative of the P3D information, and which is also not representative of current, live updates in the real-world Garmin software.

 

`Betwixt and Between` hardly engenders confidence to justify the exhorbitant extra spend for P3D over FSX, particularly when in this case it is the same (wrong) data being called, regardless of sim platform. 

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`Not possible` - do not get that. It's only software.

 

It is entirely possible to recompile the P3D database in a format that could be read by the Flight 1 Garmin product - it's purely a matter of getting the data into a format that could be read by the software - after all, several enterprising simmers were able to adapt the newer Garmin dataset between Flight 1 version releases to read the newer data - it actually wasn't that difficult.

 

So `impossible`, no.

 

 

Impossible "yes".

 

The trainer software that provides the core functionality of the Flight1 GTN750 is produced by Garmin, who produce the real GTN units. The database files that the trainer uses are the identical to the database files used by the actual GTN-750. The databases are proprietary and they are also encrypted. There is no possible way to make the Garmin Trainer use FSX's own database.

 

The "enterprising simmers" you speak of did not re-write anything. All they did was to simply copy the proprietary Garmin-produced database files from the data folder of a newer version of the Garmin Trainer into the data folder of the older Garmin Trainer that the original Flight1 GTN750 used.

 

The Flight1 product was recently updated to link to the very latest version of the Garmin Trainer.

 

While The F1 GTN-750 database is now a few months out-of-date, it is far closer to the current 2015 real-world waypoint, airway and navaid structure than the 10-year-old data in default P3D and FSX.

 

Even if it was possible to somehow make the GTN750 use the default FSX/P3D nav data, why would anyone want to do that? It would be like buying a modern automobile with an efficient, turbocharged, fuel-injected engine, and tearing that engine out and replacing it with the engine from a 1963 Volkswagen.

 

There are many completely free online sites like Skyvector and Fltplan.com that provide current real world enroute and approach charts, (as well as flight-planning) and other sites like Flightaware that provide current real-world flight plans - to say nothing of payware products like PFPX. All of these sites use current 2015 nav data, and the GTN-750 works perfectly with those sites and planners "out of the box"

 

If it were possible to make the GTN read default FSX/P3D data, one would have to use 10-year-old enroute and approach charts. The modern charting and flight planning resources would be of no use.


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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Agree: Neither possible, nor desirable..

 

A lot has happened in the last 10 years.. certainly with GPS approaches and associated waypoints..


Bert

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[quote name="Simmer2050" post="3269627" timestamp="1437117998"

 

Lockeed really needs to, after fixing VAS, make P3D nav data updatable to same as add-ons.

.

 

It has already been done by Hervé Sors. All default FSX/P3D VORs, NDBs and ILS approaches can now be updated easily to current by the installer programs available at http://www.aero.sors.fr

 

I update my P3D default navaids every month, just as I do the AIRAC nav data for my payware add-ons.

 

There is no charge for these updates, though Hervé will accept donations if you find his files useful.


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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`Not possible` - do not get that. It's only software.

 

It is entirely possible to recompile the P3D database in a format that could be read by the Flight 1 Garmin product - it's purely a matter of getting the data into a format that could be read by the software - after all, several enterprising simmers were able to adapt the newer Garmin dataset between Flight 1 version releases to read the newer data - it actually wasn't that difficult.

 

So `impossible`, no.

This is the result of misunderstanding just what it is that Flight1 (and Jean-Luc of RXP) have actually done. What has been done is a phenomenal achievement and by no means easy, but it is limited by circumstances.

 

The Garmin Trainer program is loaded into memory and is running silently in the background in its own process, so that it has little to no affect on FSX or P3D. The F1 GTN750 or 650 provides an interface between the simulator and the trainer program. The image produced by the Garmin Trainer program is 'captured' and redisplayed in the active FSX or P3D panel system.

 

All data comes from the Garmin Trainer program(s), so neither Flight1 nor RXP have any control whatsoever over the contents of the database(s). Whatever the Garmin Trainer can do is replicated faithfully in the FSX or P3D, but no further features can be added.


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556

Interests: Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling for Milviz

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What I would really like is to push a button on any addon "USE SIM DATA".

 

If this were really a commercial situation as opposed to sim, It would be expected that all products will not only have SIM nav data option, BUT IT WOULD BE THE DEFUALT SETTING.

 

Thanks for the aero sos website update , I already downloaded all the stuff I needed from them weeks ago.

 

but I never installed the p3d nav updates, cause then you run into problems like airport layout not matching nav data for airport etc.

 

IF I HAVE TO COMPROMISE HOW ABOUT THIS SOLUTION

1. UPDATE NAV DATA FOR P3D TO LATEST, AND FROM THERE ALWAYS DOWNLOAD OR BUY UPDATED AIRPORTS

 

WILL THAT FIX THE PROBLEM.

 

Means I have to run around the web looking for updated airports, or use ADE myself to fix issues, though am ADE super novice

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I fly online so updated navdata which is available is useful to me.


|Ryan Butterworth|

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