My Response to Carenado Re V1.1

[Guest BeaverDriver]

This is the email I sent to Carenado re V1.1:

 

Good Evening,

I have downloaded and installed the latest update for the Navajo, released today. I'm sorry, but the update falls way short of expectations.

1) The sounds were not adjusted at all. This is an immersion-killer.
2) The ADI is better, although still slightly off
3) The lights were not touched (particularly the landing lights - they are the same)
4) The autopilot is still unrealistic for an aircraft with a GTN installed
5) The manifold pressure (max) was not touched. This is a 2 second job in the cfg file, but was ignored.
6) The shaking on shutdown is only marginally improved, if at all.

And two items I didn`t mention but has been reported many, many, many times in the past are:

1) the HSI is supposed to be slaved, yet still drifts (I reported this for the 404, and numerous previous aircraft)
2) Your aircraft are completely unpaintable.

Given all of the above, I am asking for a refund as I am going to delete the aircraft from my hard drive. This aircraft does not live up to expectations and does not deliver as promised. Please advise me on what information you require in order to complete this reimbursement.

Regards,

 

......

 

It will be my last request for support from them. They have demonstrated time and time again that they either cannot and/or will not fix their products. They are too busy working on the next McPlane to be bothered with making their previous work correct.

 

There is a thread on this forum asking if the community isn't expecting too much from Carenado. At these prices and given what they advertise as features for these aircraft, at the very least the advertised features should be working fully. After all, if a car salesman says your car will have an AM/FM radio installed and you pick it up but the advertised radio will only pick up the AM part of the band, you're taking it back, right? Well, I asked for the advertised features to be fixed. One out of 8 were. That's a major failing grade in my book. I have many, many Carenado/Alabeo products, and have seen a steady decline in workmanship for a long time now. As the Navajo was an aircraft I really wanted, I opted to take a chance on it knowing that there would be a certain number of bugs. I didn't expect to get the level of bugs that came with this airplane. I have asked for a full refund and have removed the aircraft from my HD.

 

I urge all who are unhappy with what they have received to do likewise. Maybe the message will get through, but I doubt it. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to try. For those who are satisfied with what they have, enjoy.

 

So long all.

[ramprat 8]

This is the email I sent to Carenado re V1.1:

 

Good Evening,

 

I have downloaded and installed the latest update for the Navajo, released today. I'm sorry, but the update falls way short of expectations.

 

1) The sounds were not adjusted at all. This is an immersion-killer.

2) The ADI is better, although still slightly off

3) The lights were not touched (particularly the landing lights - they are the same)

4) The autopilot is still unrealistic for an aircraft with a GTN installed

5) The manifold pressure (max) was not touched. This is a 2 second job in the cfg file, but was ignored.

6) The shaking on shutdown is only marginally improved, if at all.

 

And two items I didn`t mention but has been reported many, many, many times in the past are:

 

1) the HSI is supposed to be slaved, yet still drifts (I reported this for the 404, and numerous previous aircraft)

2) Your aircraft are completely unpaintable.

 

Given all of the above, I am asking for a refund as I am going to delete the aircraft from my hard drive. This aircraft does not live up to expectations and does not deliver as promised. Please advise me on what information you require in order to complete this reimbursement.

 

Regards,

 

......

 

It will be my last request for support from them. They have demonstrated time and time again that they either cannot and/or will not fix their products. They are too busy working on the next McPlane to be bothered with making their previous work correct.

 

There is a thread on this forum asking if the community isn't expecting too much from Carenado. At these prices and given what they advertise as features for these aircraft, at the very least the advertised features should be working fully. After all, if a car salesman says your car will have an AM/FM radio installed and you pick it up but the advertised radio will only pick up the AM part of the band, you're taking it back, right? Well, I asked for the advertised features to be fixed. One out of 8 were. That's a major failing grade in my book. I have many, many Carenado/Alabeo products, and have seen a steady decline in workmanship for a long time now. As the Navajo was an aircraft I really wanted, I opted to take a chance on it knowing that there would be a certain number of bugs. I didn't expect to get the level of bugs that came with this airplane. I have asked for a full refund and have removed the aircraft from my HD.

 

I urge all who are unhappy with what they have received to do likewise. Maybe the message will get through, but I doubt it. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to try. For those who are satisfied with what they have, enjoy.

 

So long all.

HI Glenn,

 

Your position in this matter is absolutely justified.  I too was a bit dismayed that they didn't even fix the the manifold pressure.  And I agree with you that their products have been getting worse over the past few years.  I also own several of their products (10).  I have requested a refund and deleted three, so that makes 13 that I have bought over the years.  With the current trend in quality, I have decided to look at Carenado as sort of a flight sim Kit-Plane company.  They provide a basic platform and it's up to us to put it together.   In the case of the Navajo,  I have been able to hack the King autopilot into it and it couples up with the GTN750 nicely.  I have fixed the manifold pressure.  I found I can fix the sound via a program called Airwrench.  I can overlook the attitude indicator problem.  I use the "d" key to slave the HSI.  All in all, I have a Navajo that is flyable.  One positve note is Carenado's integration of the GTN750.  That has become a go/no-go item on my pre-purchase checklist with them.  

 

Hope to see you in some of the other forums Glenn.  It was good to "meet" you.

 

Take care,

Bill

[JesC 88]

5) The manifold pressure (max) was not touched. This is a 2 second job in the cfg file, but was ignored.

 

 

Hello Bill.

 

Are you quite certain about the 46" manifold pressure? I ask because this seems to have become a very contentious point and I am confused by some rather conflicting information on the subject. In fact I asked Carenado about the correct setting and they sent back a reply which included a copy from the POH.

 

The POH states:

 

"The engines are adjusted to provide a maximum 40” Hg manifold pressure at full throttle in standard temperature at sea level ."

 

Of course I realize this is not entirely clear in and of itself as it is possible that the POH means this simply as a caution, that the pilot should manually make this adjustment when advancing the throttles so as not to exceed the 40" limit. So, I also searched and found a couple of other references to this issue. Unfortunately it was much easier to find information on the Chieftain but I found these to be helpful.

 

From a Piper Chieftain ground school training manual:

 

"The maximum MP is set during a maintenance action and is affected by the seasons.It will be readjusted during maintenance for an optimum 42”."

 

And from another Piper reference on the Chieftain in Flying Magazine (May, 1973):

 

"The [Chieftain's] larger blowers enable the engine to pull a maximum of 42” of manifold pressure, two inches more than the Navajo B."

 

So, I am thinking that just maybe Carenado has this one correct. Maintenance sets the engines such that the wastegates are opened at 40" to prevent exceeding Piper's recommended limitation on the PA-31 310's engines. Can you (or, anyone else) add anything further to clarify this?

 

Thanks so much for your continued input.

 

Jesse

 

Edit: After re-reading the POH quote it seems less ambiguous to me since it does state that this adjustment is at full throttle.

[ramprat 8]

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for the info.  Apparently I'm wrong.  But the manifold pressure gauge in the Carenado Navajo is redlined at 46".  So, I assumed that was maximum.  I flew so many different birds, and so long ago, I can't remeber for sure what the maximum MP was in the 310 hp Navajo.  However, I do remember performance.  And this Navajo performs more like it should at climb and cruise power settings with the 46" value in the aircraft.cfg.  For some reason having 46" set for a maximum, results in more realistic power at climb and cruise settings.  The airplane should cruise in the low 200 mph TAS range.  I could not get it to cruise any where near that speed with the lower setting in the aircraft.cfg file.  And with the lower setting, single engine performance was not accurate, actually there was none.  it would barely hold altitude even at 1000 lbs under max gross wt.  So, for me, I will leave it at 46 even though it is apparently wrong.  It makes the bird perform more correctly IMO. 

 

Take care,

 

Bill

[ramprat 8]

Hello Bill.

 

Are you quite certain about the 46" manifold pressure? I ask because this seems to have become a very contentious point and I am confused by some rather conflicting information on the subject. In fact I asked Carenado about the correct setting and they sent back a reply which included a copy from the POH.

 

The POH states:

 

"The engines are adjusted to provide a maximum 40” Hg manifold pressure at full throttle in standard temperature at sea level ."

 

Of course I realize this is not entirely clear in and of itself as it is possible that the POH means this simply as a caution, that the pilot should manually make this adjustment when advancing the throttles so as not to exceed the 40" limit. So, I also searched and found a couple of other references to this issue. Unfortunately it was much easier to find information on the Chieftain but I found these to be helpful.

 

From a Piper Chieftain ground school training manual:

 

"The maximum MP is set during a maintenance action and is affected by the seasons.It will be readjusted during maintenance for an optimum 42”."

 

And from another Piper reference on the Chieftain in Flying Magazine (May, 1973):

 

"The [Chieftain's] larger blowers enable the engine to pull a maximum of 42” of manifold pressure, two inches more than the Navajo B."

 

So, I am thinking that just maybe Carenado has this one correct. Maintenance sets the engines such that the wastegates are opened at 40" to prevent exceeding Piper's recommended limitation on the PA-31 310's engines. Can you (or, anyone else) add anything further to clarify this?

 

Thanks so much for your continued input.

 

Jesse

 

Edit: After re-reading the POH quote it seems less ambiguous to me since it does state that this adjustment is at full throttle.

 

Hi Jesse,

 

I just found this video:

 

It appears he is getting about 46" on takeoff.  So, I don't know, maybe some Navajo's were set up different than others.

Still loving the Navajo even with it's little Carenado quirks.  And, I see they are getting ready to release a Phenom 300 bizjet with the G-1000.  I think I'll lay in the weeds for a bit and see whether they mastered the G-1000.  They didn't in the Phenom 100. 

 

Take care,

 

Bill

[PaulGR 168]

Good luck!

[ramprat 8]

Good luck!

Me thinks you doubt.  Me too.  Slim chance.  Correction, no chance.  Right?

[PaulGR 168]

Me thinks you doubt.  Me too.  Slim chance.  Correction, no chance.  Right?

CareNOTado does not care and pretty much every plane of theirs can be given as example.

I'm not giving them my money till that changes.

[ramprat 8]

I hope they will change someday.   I have been able to hack the Navajo to a point where it is not bad.  But, the way they released it....well, it should not have been released.  I wonder what "tested by real pilots" means in Carenado language.  I suspect not pilots with much experience, if any, in the subject aircraft. 

[PaulGR 168]

I hope they will change someday.   I have been able to hack the Navajo to a point where it is not bad.  But, the way they released it....well, it should not have been released.  I wonder what "tested by real pilots" means in Carenado language.  I suspect not pilots with much experience, if any, in the subject aircraft. 

Me to actually. I really like the Hawker but that is only thx to Bert and his superb GTN mod.

[louisdecoolste 12]

If they had `real pilots` they should name them - just so other really real pilots know never to fly with them, ever ! 

 

It's another of Carenados many figments of imagination. Like `support`,`value`,`customer care` and `finishing a project`

 

I've certainly learned enough not to be trapped by the Navajo - which sounds quite painful, actually  :unsure:

[Jim Robinson 122]

Whatever...

[Jimm 437]

My only regret in purchasing their aircraft was not finding you folks here first.  I made a three aircraft purchase about  a couple of months ago and have noticed my fair share of functionality gone awry.  Oh well, live and learn.

 

-Jim

[cvearl 60]

And then a month later... http://www.avsim.com/topic/472834-pa31-review-from-pa31-pilot/

 

LOL

[JYW 2,980]

And then a month later... http://www.avsim.com/topic/472834-pa31-review-from-pa31-pilot/

 

LOL

 

 

I love the Carenado Navajo.  And I also find the statement that "the autopilot is completely inappropriate for an aircraft with a GTN750" quite perplexing.  There are dozens of YouTube vidos showing real Navajos, Dukes, B55s, etc, etc with GTNs and still running older autopilots, such as that featured in the Carenado Navajo.   I love that it's an older unit and not the same old 'default' KAP140 / KFC225 we get again and again in other Carenado and Alabeo aircraft.

 

Any autopilot with either a NAV or HDG function can follow navigation cues from a GTN750.  Newer autopilots maintain an entirely digital interface between AP and Nav source(s), however digital to analogue converters are used to translate the digital cues from something like a GTN750 to analogue roll steering commands in an older autopilot.     An upgrade in GPS equipment will provide a GA aircraft owner with real 'bang for the buck'. A new autopilot - where the present one works fine and is certified (and will interact with the Nav source perfectly well) - gives far less return for the significant investment.    Auopilots are expensive!