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fogboundturtle

New dovetails Flight simulator due in 2016 on both Xbox One and Windows 10

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1. Wonder how that would work out, if GTA was only the sandbox. Like, you can walk, drive and fly around in this tiny world - and nothing else. Nothing cares if you are there or not, nothing really interacts with your avatar.

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But as you may know, in open-world / sandbox 'games' such as GTA, everything cares if you are there or not, since everything is potentially linked to your virtual character - just waiting to respond to your next move as it were.   Think of it as a 'karmic sandbox' in which your actions determine how the environment reacts to you.

 

That 'empty world' which you described - in which nothing else cares if you are there, actually reminds me of flying in FSX and Aerofly-FS - where cars and ai planes are mere ghosts, with no damage detection or interaction, just an empty world .  By comparison GTA-5 may look small, but its dense multi level interactive environment sure crams a heck of a lot of action into it, or whatever else you want to do.

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As for documentation: you are aware, that (as a rather extreme example), with the PMDG 737 you get the full fledged Boeing FCOM with roundabout 1000 pages in total? I don't think a games manual will ever remotly compare to the fact that you can/have to use real world docs on objects in a simulator.

 

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PMDG 73 etc are paid-for add-ons for MSFS, not the 'flight-simulator' itself.   Somebody could produce a complex paid-for addon for GTA for example, then supply a technical manual,  but that add-on wouldn't be GTA itself.

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 Again, wonder how that would work out for the popularity of GTA if you had to read every car's manual before you can drive it, let alone every planes operation manual before you can fire it up.

 

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I doubt if the popularity of FSX on Steam is dented by it being supplied with a manual.  I reckon the majority of gamers//simmers kids/adults just hop in a plane and hope for the best... pretty much as many of us did years or decades ago on our first flights.  Some might say Nerds vs gamers ...but its all fun and games either way. 

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In simming mode, I want to do it the right way, like in real life,

 

Then why 'fly' in MSFS?  It has no crash damage modelling, no gear or bird strike damage ...but  instead a cartoon-like 'crash' screen appears if your wing clips a building or another plane etc. ..or even weirder, your plane can fly right through other planes as if they weren't there. .  Thats hardly a real-life  environment.

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Gaming for me is like watching a movie - mostly without thinking too much, only having fun,

 

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So you obviously dont have much intercation with whatever game you're playing - wheareas many gamers find it requires quite intense mind / body coordination and concentration to drive, shoot, fly or survive in whatever virtual world they chose to 'play' in.   The reward I guess is faster reflexes and more brain-power, as shown in various scientific studies.

http://rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3679

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As a simmer, I use the virtual world as a tool to fulfil my dream that I cannot pursue in real life. I have been dreaming of flying for real for all of my 50 years, but it just won't happen any time soon (or ever... Games fulfil the unrealistic "dreams" - and hopefully everyone using them is capable of realizing that.

 

Sure. Games and game/sims are the same thing in the end since they both allow people to fulfil their dreams on a virtual level.

 

Real-world environment - real world crash detection and consequences means intense concentration is often required ;-)  >>

 

https://youtu.be/EMG-1Exy6EY?t=4m3s

 

.

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I thought MS Flight, FSX, ESP were all from the same code base? ... and nothing wrong with that at all, it's a very complex product well beyond limitations of say a GTA V or any other 3D shooter.  I would be really really surprised if MS Flight was a re-write from scratch.

 

Has DG announced any plans for an SDK for their new PC Flight product?  (apologies if I missed it)

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Nothing "confirmed" although they have said that they recognize and want to work with 3rd party devs on the new sim. One would assume that they realize their sim would be doomed without an SDK (Aimee used to work for Flight1 so she should know) and John V said that after visiting them in the UK he feels that their vision is aligned with that of ORBX so I would hope that means that his company will still have a platform to grow on when it comes out. But to be honest, who knows! Guess we will just have to wait and see. 

 

Also, as I was browsing some of their twitch broadcasts, they spoke on the topic of "simulation" vs "game" and I thought they provided a very telling answer "Its safe to say that our next flight simulator will be a realistic simulation style simulation. We want to produce a simulator, a highly detailed brilliant simulatior": 

Its at 18:20

https://youtu.be/qx1zOAiEmoY


Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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One would think that DTG would like to sell third party developer either through Steam or other type store. currently their has been some experimentation with this with ORBX and a few others.

 

Problem with MSFS is it was a one time sale by Microsoft and then the third party developers created the ecosystem and marketplace, the way to do this properly is have DTG make a little money from it to help keep the franchise alive. It would be best in my POV to just give it away or charge $5 then clip the ticket on the third party developer. Reality is this is the world we live in these days

 

For example 

 

Worlds largest Taxi Company doesn't own any taxi's (Uber)

Worlds largest content producer doesn't create any content (Facebook)

Worlds largest telephone company doesn't own any infrastructyre (Skype WeChat)

Worlds largest retailer has no inventory (Alibaba)

Worlds largest movie house owns no cinema's (Netflix)

Worlds largest software vendors don't write apps (Apple Google)


Matthew Kane

 

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I thought MS Flight, FSX, ESP were all from the same code base? ... and nothing wrong with that at all, it's a very complex product well beyond limitations of say a GTA V or any other 3D shooter.  I would be really really surprised if MS Flight was a re-write from scratch.

 

FSX and ESP 1.0 were nearly the same code base. Flight had some FSX/ESP elements, but was sort of a spin-off engine from the unreleased Train Simulator 2. Flight's engine was very good and very stable, as quite a few of us who continued to use it found out.

 

I'd say GTA is equally as complex, but in a different way. It's not just *another* shooter. The details and environmental events blow FSX out of the water. That said, it's still not a round earth simulation. Still a very capable and powerful engine.


Brandon Filer

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What's the difference between a sim and a game?

What's the difference between a simmer and a gamer?

What's the difference between a PC and a console?

 

I'll add a new one from Obi Won:

What's the difference between a professional user and a casual user?

 

I'll give you a clue to the answer: It starts with the letter n and ends with a g.

What's the difference between a professional user and a casual user? Professional
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Professional (disambiguation).
280px-Young_girl_sits_on_doctor%27s_lap.
Doctors in many Western countries take the Hippocratic Oath upon entering the profession, as a symbol of their commitment to upholding a number of ethical and moral standards.

A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns their living from a specified activity. The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform the role of that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations. Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognized professional associations. Some definitions of "professional" limit this term to those professions that serve some important aspect of public interest [1] and the general good of society.[2][3]

In some cultures, the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well-educated workers who enjoy considerable work autonomy and who are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work.[4][5][6][7]

Driving to work this morning, I was thinking..

 

Will Dovetail Games release of their Dovetail Games Flight Simulation be a game that simulates a simulation, or a simulation that simulates a game?

 

Please excuse the above, those thoughts were before my first coffee.... :Cuppa:


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Two points, having read through the 200 plus replies here.

 

1. Simmers vs Gamers. Pointless distinctions. The correct word is "users"

You can load up FSX and flour bomb targets from an ultralight - very game like.

You can also load up the ngx and run a 2 hour scheduled flight with real weather - very sim like.

The point is, the program is set for different 'users'. Doesn't matter what type of user.

 

2. I know a few of the guys at dovetail, including Aimee, and I can tell you that they are acutely aware of the communities 'expectations' and their doing they're upmost to try and give us what we want. Who knows, they may surprise us all!

 

Jess B

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This is the dumbest thread I have ever seen on AVSIM.

 

 Surely it's a dead heat with "Potential Prepar3d V3 Clue in FSUIPC Log 4.942 Release"?

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as I was browsing some of their twitch broadcasts, they spoke on the topic of "simulation" vs "game" and I thought they provided a very telling answer  ....

"Its safe to say that our next flight simulator will be a realistic simulation style simulation. We want to produce a simulator, a highly detailed brilliant simulatior":

 

Its good to hear Dovetail confirm that  "..our next flight simulator will be a realistic simulation style simulation" (whatever that means!!)  :P ,

  ....and that they want to produce "a highly detailed brilliant simulator".

 

The thing is: Dovetail Games have been producing highly detailed brilliant simulators for years, namely their Train Simulator and Fishing Simulator; Both games are marketed and sold as simulator games and are rated 'Pegi 3', meaning 'suitable for age 3 and over', as is FSX-SE,  which of course is also 'developed' by Dovetail Games...sort of.

 

Who knows, we might even see a Pegi-10 rating on Dovetail's forthcoming 'brilliant' flightsim? ;-)

 

This is the dumbest thread I have ever seen on AVSIM.

 

Huh???

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Definition of "Dumb"

 

meaning:...

 

* lacking the power of speech 
* temporarily unable to speak:
* refraining from any or much speech; silent.

---------------------------------

 

Since this thread has over 17,000 hits and comments, I wouldnt call it dumb;

..or at least certainly not the dumbest on Avsim ;-)

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Since this thread has over 17,000 hits and comments, I wouldnt call it dumb;..or at least certainly not the dumbest on Avsim ;-)

 

The Oxford dictionary gives:

 

3 informal , chiefly North American Stupid:

a dumb question

 

Merriam -Webster gives

 

 
6
a :  lacking intelligence : stupid
 
b :  showing a lack of intelligence <asking dumb questions>
 
c :  requiring no intelligence <dumb luck>

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Quote

 

The Oxford dictionary gives:

 

 informal , chiefly North American Stupid:

 

:wink:

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The thing is: Dovetail Games have been producing highly detailed brilliant simulators for years, namely their Train Simulator and Fishing Simulator; Both games are marketed and sold as simulator games and are rated 'Pegi 3', meaning 'suitable for age 3 and over', as is FSX-SE,  which of course is also 'developed' by Dovetail...sort of.

 

Who knows, we might even see a Pegi-10 rating on Dovetail's forthcoming 'brilliant' flightsim? ;-)

 

Whats your point? The original Microsoft FSX was PEGI 3+. Do you even know what PEGI and ESRB ratings are for? They are to ensure that the game should not contain any sounds or pictures that are likely to scare or frighten young children and no bad language should be heard. You want a flight sim or a first person shooting game?  :fool:


Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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I like the informal, chiefly North American Stupid.

Also Duh!

 

So, a Gaming company is/will be producing a be a realistic simulation style simulation" (whatever that means!!)  :P ,

  ....and that they want to produce "a highly detailed brilliant simulator"!!

 

I surpose it has been forgotten that the base code was produced by Aces Gaming Studio, The box of the original FS2004 & FSX called it a game, the retail gaming stores where these were sold, called it a game, & we play it with gaming devices.

As I said before, we are playing a game that simulates a simulator!. ESP was a different story!

 

Mmmm, Just wondering if Microsoft's built in card games are known as games or simulators? Pinball a game or a simulator?

 

Sure, Dovetail Gaming wants to produce whatever they say they want to, but, do not forget that their gaming market is far, far bigger than their flying market. So, Smoke & Mirror time once again.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Whats your point?

 

Did I touch a nerve? ;-)

 

The original Microsoft FSX was PEGI 3+.

 

Yes I know that ...and ?

 

Do you even know what PEGI and ESRB ratings are for?

 

Obviously or I wouldn't have mentioned them.

 

They are to ensure that the game should not contain any sounds or pictures that are likely to scare or frighten young children and no bad language should be heard.

 

Thats exactly my point!! As you rightly said:: the ratings are there to "ensure that the game" is suitable for young children to play. My point being that FSX and FSX-SE etc etc are games suitable for 3 year olds' and over.

 

You want a flight sim or a first person shooting game?

 

Well that's very kind of you to offer. ;-) In that case I think I'll choose a flight-sim thats also a shooter..and is also rated Pegi 3, ('suitable for age 3 and over"). Its produced by Microsoft you know, and it's called Combat Simulator 3.

 

I just hope that my 4 year old nephew isn't too frightened by the sounds of the loud aircraft's' guns, and the sight of war-planes on fire with pilots trapped inside falling to their deaths! ......

 

Microsoft War Simulator?  Start em young ;-)

(A flight sim - first person shooting game)

https://youtu.be/9IEy4g1wC0E?t=10m44s

 

. :fool:

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Whats your point? The original Microsoft FSX was PEGI 3+. Do you even know what PEGI and ESRB ratings are for? They are to ensure that the game should not contain any sounds or pictures that are likely to scare or frighten young children and no bad language should be heard. You want a flight sim or a first person shooting game?  :fool:

Exactly! & well said. Microsoft ensured that the game protected kids against 'upsetting' stuff. Now, a simulator would/should simulate  'As real as it gets' with all the bells & whistles that simulate 'real' flying? So, when I fly & crash, as I very occasionally do, & I curse, as I occassionally do, an I then breaking the PEGI (?) requirements & therefore are unsuitable to carry on playing? Or is this only within the hearing of young children??

 

(Just carrying on the so called 'Dumb' theme! :hi:

 

I also wonder what age setting will be on the Dovetail Game release?

 

So, just as P3D is not for entertainment, & we know how much has been said about that, it will be very interesting to see what Eula's & age settings will come out of this.

Will we loose our qualification to play if we curse when we are being entertained?

 

It is enough to make one steam!! :t0103:


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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