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Is this a realistic simulation of the Piper Archer III

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I have purchased the Flying Club Archer III from Just Flight. When trying out this plane I find that,

On takeoff with neutral trim setting I must pull the stick all the way back in order to make the plane take off. This is unlike any other FSX plane I have included the A2A Piper Cherokee which I would suspect being similar. Does a real Archer behave like this ? Another difference compared to the Cherokee I experience is when deploying flaps. The Archer pitches up significantly unlike the A2A Cherokee. Also the turn coordinator ball feels different. How realistic is this plane from Just flight ?

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I have purchased the Flying Club Archer III from Just Flight. When trying out this plane I find that,

On takeoff with neutral trim setting I must pull the stick all the way back in order to make the plane take off. This is unlike any other FSX plane I have included the A2A Piper Cherokee which I would suspect being similar. Does a real Archer behave like this ? Another difference compared to the Cherokee I experience is when deploying flaps. The Archer pitches up significantly unlike the A2A Cherokee. Also the turn coordinator ball feels different. How realistic is this plane from Just flight ?

I have that plane, although haven't flown it in years probably since i have the Caronado Archer II. I just flew the archer, although it is an Archer II, last week in very decent conditions here in Chicago. I have not ever noticed that issue in either the Archers or Warriors I fly, but out of curiousity was the plane close to max gross weight? Also, you may want to double check the trim settings to make sure it's not set improperly (although I see now you had it set to neutral). i have never flown the Cherokee 180 in FSX or in real life (i believe that's the plane with the knob style flight controls if I am correct) so I can't compare the two, but flap deployment should not cause a steep pitch up. Flaps do provide lift at times but not to that extent (such as with a short field take off). I fly GA ery little in FSX since I do so in real life and can't quite duplicate the same feeling in FSX.

 

Cheers, Pete

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but out of curiousity was the plane close to max gross weight?

 

Yes I think it was. How different are an Archer II compared to an Archer III ?

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All PA-28s (Archer, Cherokee, Arrow, Warrior, Dakota) are broadly similar in handling characteristics (given they're basically the same airframe), although A2A's Cherokee is an early model with the straight "Hershey bar" wing.

 

The later tapered wing of the Archer III handles a little differently (less nice tbh), especially at low speed, but don't think you'd notice it most of the time. The stabilator is larger on later variants (such as the Archer III) so in theory it should require less input to rotate, not more!

 

The other major thing that creates differences in handling is the weight of the engine, but most are broadly similar in this regard except for the 6 cylinder models. Oh and the Arrow IV has a T-tail, they're pretty rare thought so I don't know how their handling differs.

 

I'd expect A2A's model to be a lot closer to reality than the other products you mentioned.

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Agreed...and even between flying the Archer and the Warrior besides the extra horsepower they feel almost the same to fly. I prefer the Cherokees to the Cessna type and find them to be an absolute joy to fly.

 

Cheers, Pete

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If your Archer has a high tail, it does indeed require more yoke pull to lift off..

 

A bit of "up trim" may help also..

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I have several hundred hours in both the Warrior and the Archer, both of which I used to get my SEL license. Neither one of them requires full aft yoke to rotate. Both planes fly almost on their own, but with neutral elevator trim, you might need a slight bit of back stick to get the wheels off. Never saw, or flew a high-tailed Archer, although I flew the Tomahawk, which does have a "flying" elevator during my early training.

 

And depending on when you deploy flaps, you will get some pitch up, but it shouldn't be significant. I don't know about the plane you purchased, but the flight characteristics do seem a bit "off."

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And depending on when you deploy flaps, you will get some pitch up, but it shouldn't be significant. I don't know about the plane you purchased, but the flight characteristics do seem a bit "off."

 

Yes everything seem to point at that. This plane is for sure going into my regretted purchases. The reason for buying an FSX Archer III is that I plan to take a real trial flying lesson in such a plane. Maybe the Carenado Archer II is better in this regard ?


 

 


If your Archer has a high tail, it does indeed require more yoke pull to lift off..

 

It has not from what I can see

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If you want an accurate small Piper, why not the a2a Cherokee?

 

It is extremely realistic and I would think similar to other Piper singles..

 

Cherokee, Arrow, Archer are all versions of the same plane.

 

The a2a bird has 180 hp, like the Archer III..

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Find the [flaps] section of the aircraft.cfg (there may be more than one) and decrease the value in the pitch_scalar= line.

 

I have changed this on many planes as ,for me, most FS planes pitch up too much when you deploy flaps.

 

regards,

Joe

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If you want an accurate small Piper, why not the a2a Cherokee?

 

I asked about this in the A2A Cherokee forum and from the replies got the impression that the Archer and Cherokee differs more than I first thought. Otherwise I do own the A2A Cherokee.

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In that case, I would stick with the a2a Cherokee.. one of the best planes in FSX, as far as I am concerned.

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I have several hundred hours in both the Warrior and the Archer, both of which I used to get my SEL license. Neither one of them requires full aft yoke to rotate. Both planes fly almost on their own, but with neutral elevator trim, you might need a slight bit of back stick to get the wheels off. And depending on when you deploy flaps, you will get some pitch up, but it shouldn't be significant. I don't know about the plane you purchased, but the flight characteristics do seem a bit "off."

 

But one thing makes me thoughtful. In addition to the Archer III from Just flight I also tried a freeware Archer III and finally I also bought the Carenado Archer II (should be very similar to Archer III). All these planes behaves the same way on takeoff with neutral trim. I need to pull the yoke almost all the way back in order to lift the plane. Has three developer got the thing wrong in the same way ?


 

 


In that case, I would stick with the a2a Cherokee.. one of the best planes in FSX, as far as I am concerned.

 

But question is, is it the best simulation of a Piper Archer III ?

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But one thing makes me thoughtful. In addition to the Archer III from Just flight I also tried a freeware Archer III and finally I also bought the Carenado Archer II (should be very similar to Archer III). All these planes behaves the same way on takeoff with neutral trim. I need to pull the yoke almost all the way back in order to lift the plane. Has three developer got the thing wrong in the same way ?

I would double-check your trim input device/calibration. It is very strange that 3 different versions give you the same experience - and that experience is not noted by others posting here.

My 2 cents worth - the JF Archer has a FDE by Rob Young (RealAir), and while it may be showing its age re: VC textures, it's flight dynamics are generally considered one of its strong points.

Happy Flying.

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Indeed. Not only trim, but elevator calibration as well. Sometimes those yokes need re-calibrating

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Indeed. Not only trim, but elevator calibration as well. Sometimes those yokes need re-calibrating

 

I use a Saitek Cessna Trim wheel and a TM Hotas Warthog controller. I have checked the calibration in FSUIPC and if my controller calibration was incorrect shouldn't I see the same thing in other planes ?

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I use a Saitek Cessna Trim wheel and a TM Hotas Warthog controller. I have checked the calibration in FSUIPC and if my controller calibration was incorrect shouldn't I see the same thing in other planes ?

Yes, you should. But you said you have similar experience with other Archers too, hence Portia911 and my ideas. That is where i would start investigating at least. Maybe even physically disconnect the trim wheel for test purposes. Of course, presuming you rotate at the respective IAS and flaps.

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I would take a step back, and recognize that no FSX simulation is going to "feel" like the real plane.

 

Fly the a2a plane if it feels good to you, and be prepared for the actual plane to "feel" different when

you sit in it.   In the real world, even two similar planes will feel different.. 

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Besides flying is like riding a bicycle. Most adjustments you make are unconscious. So it doesn't really matter if it doesn't feel exactly the same, plus any airplane handles differently under different circumstances. Flying alone or having someone heavy next to you will make quite a difference.

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I would take a step back, and recognize that no FSX simulation is going to "feel" like the real plane.

 

Fly the a2a plane if it feels good to you, and be prepared for the actual plane to "feel" different when

you sit in it.   In the real world, even two similar planes will feel different.. 

 

I fly both the A2A Cherokee and the Carenado Archer II. My feeling is that the Carenado is better than the JF and freeware Archers but best feels the A2A plane. I also tried out the Archer II in FSX-SE with my old CH flightsim yoke and then I got the impression that I didn't need to pull the yoke almost all the way back. But still more than the Cherokee.

But still the CH yoke exhibit stickiness and lack of precision that I have the Hotas controller

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Make sure that you have the null zones set to zero, and the sensitivity set to max for the yoke!

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I would take a step back, and recognize that no FSX simulation is going to "feel" like the real plane.

 

Fly the a2a plane if it feels good to you, and be prepared for the actual plane to "feel" different when

you sit in it.   In the real world, even two similar planes will feel different.. 

 

I now have made a flight in a real Archer III from left seat. What I have noticed and learned is

The Just Flight Archer III is incorrect in regard of having to pull the yoke all the way back.

I was told the trim was neutral and to set one notch of flaps and around 50 kt I started to pull back the yoke to some degree but certainly not fully back. Also retracting and later extending flaps did not affect pitch to such a degree as in JF Archer III.

Another thing at cruise the power lever were set back to only about 33% of full. At that setting we were going at around 100 kt and the rpm was at around 2300 rpm. This is not possible in any of the three FSX Pipers.

But the JF Archer III cockpit does look like the real thing. Even the Carenado Archer II cockpit is significantly different from Archer III as is the Cherokee.

The most significant difference between the real thing and the virtual (all three) is the rudder pedals. My impression is that in the real thing they hardly move and feels stiffer compared to my CH Rudder pedals.

The yoke feels more stiff up in the air.

So I think I miss a good realistic virtual Piper Archer III

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Find the [flaps] section of the aircraft.cfg (there may be more than one) and decrease the value in the pitch_scalar= line.

 

I have changed this on many planes as ,for me, most FS planes pitch up too much when you deploy flaps.

 

regards,

Joe

 

I could indeed remove the pitch up behavior by changing this value from 1.0 to 0.05. But the incorrect behavior of having to move the yoke fully back to take of remains.

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I want to echo some of what Bert brought up about the Archer III compared to the likes of a Piper from A2A.  For starters, i downloaded the Archer III way back when as it was a free download from Just Flight.  It was not exactly the most accurate aircraft at the time, unless it has undergone a major overhaul I am not aware of, but in contrast, A2A creates "study aircraft" (as pointed out by other sim enthusiasts) and their level of accuracy is more spot on to the real thing compared to a lot of what Just Flight puts out, despite the aircraft coming from other devs.  I have a whole slew of JF aircraft sitting in my archives gathering dust (same goes for Carenado, and for the same reason) as they cool looking to take snapshots of but for level of accuracy and attention to flight dynamics, this is where they don't excel much.

 

If you want as close to real as possible, A2A is the way to go.  You won't have to nitpick or fight as much about how they operate in comparison to the likes of Just Flight's versions.  This is nto to say that JD puts out crappy aircraft all the time though.  It may be a case of hit or miss...just my two cents.

 

-Jim

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If you want as close to real as possible, A2A is the way to go. You won't have to nitpick or fight as much about how they operate in comparison to the likes of Just Flight's versions.

 

I was thinking about the difference between a real Archer III and a real Cherokee. It's the Cherokee A2A simulates and the Archer III is the one I tried out in real life

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