Aerofoillabs Cessna 172 SP!

[whoispankaj 51]

OK..Here is my update .I had stutter issues when i loaded and activated it for the first time. I then restarted my computer and xplane. So the stutter issue was out. Its smooth now. But i dont have control over the view point. It was too high for me. Xcamera was not able to help me here.I was not able to integrate xcamera with this plane as I was with other planes.Now my comparison is based on what I found with A2A.The trim was quite twitchy.May be I need to set the curve to handle it. The performance was smooth. With respect to the mixture, while leaning, I could only get it back one inch after which it began to run rough.More than 3/4th of my mixture travel length was unused.

[Comanche 417]

To answer some of the questions asked here..

 

The prop effect is 3d.

There is no rain effects on windscreen.

The flight model seems OK, but I am not able to stall or spin the plane.

I'm running it on Win10 and have no FPS issues. It seems very smooth. I turned off the dynamic camera, it was panning away from what I need to see without me initiating it. Very annoying. However the G effects when you make turns or inputs are fantastic and give you a great sense of being in the air.

 

I wish someone made a plugin that does this for all planes. I use the headshake plugin, but Iit does not seem to work for me or at least looks nothing like what this does.

 

Rob

[strider1 575]

How's it on the prop effects ?

 

Are you talking about the spiraling slip stream ? The spiraling slip stream model is still broken in X-plane. So no add-on is going to behave realistically with-out a fix from Laminar. I emailed Austin a few days ago and ask him if its ever going to be fixed, and he said "i will be looking at spiral stream for 10 ". I am not holding my breath ! But lets pray !

 

The plane will roll to the left (Torque) with full power as it should ! It slips well in a 15 knot crosswind ! It feels pretty solid in the flight dynamics department !

[strider1 575]

To answer some of the questions asked here..

 

The prop effect is 3d.

There is no rain effects on windscreen.

The flight model seems OK, but I am not able to stall or spin the plane.

I'm running it on Win10 and have no FPS issues. It seems very smooth. I turned off the dynamic camera, it was panning away from what I need to see without me initiating it. Very annoying. However the G effects when you make turns or inputs are fantastic and give you a great sense of being in the air.

 

I wish someone made a plugin that does this for all planes. I use the headshake plugin, but Iit does not seem to work for me or at least looks nothing like what this does.

 

Rob

 

Is there a plane in X-plane that can spin ?

 

It will stall if you pitch up high enough. You are correct, it wont stall at low airspeed and low pitch, which is unrealistic.

[RichUK 474]

On the positive side - the aircraft seems to fly real nice. Haven't tried stalls etc. yet.

 

On the negative side - I am disappointed in the interior textures. They are sub-par. I'm also disappointed that there are no rain effects. In fact, it doesn't appear you are even looking through glass.  

[LAdamson 240]

The plane will roll to the left (Torque) with full power as it should ! It slips well in a 15 knot crosswind ! It feels pretty solid in the flight dynamics department !

 

After takeoff in a 172, there shouldn't be much of a sense of roll at all. Just left yaw, to be countered with right rudder. If the left wheel is pushing down on a takeoff roll (torque), then that's fine. 

OK..Here is my update .I had stutter issues when i loaded and activated it for the first time. I then restarted my computer and xplane. So the stutter issue was out. Its smooth now. But i dont have control over the view point. It was too high for me. Xcamera was not able to help me here.I was not able to integrate xcamera with this plane as I was with other planes.Now my comparison is based on what I found with A2A.The trim was quite twitchy.May be I need to set the curve to handle it. The performance was smooth. With respect to the mixture, while leaning, I could only get it back one inch after which it began to run rough.More than 3/4th of my mixture travel length was unused.

A2A nails the mixture perfectly. At our 4600' altitude, mixture (real life) would be between a third & one half travel for takeoff. Many simulated planes do not portray this well.

[Oliver Ooi 85]

I see a few Mac users are having issues or I'm thinking maybe a plugin issue with a few, but I have it and zero issues running it. The Dev posted today they think they have a fix for the others and expect a patch Tues. I been flying it all day and I can't wait to see what else they add to it.

Oh great! Thanks for the info.

[Jean-Jacques 120]

P.S. The videos are great, but I wish devs would do them without music and talk instead of wiggling the mouse.

 

Tony, you are so right about the music which, for me, prevents the viewer from hearing the engine(s) and other sounds. Just spoils it for me. You're also right about verbal communication vs cursor communication.

[strider1 575]

After takeoff in a 172, there shouldn't be much of a sense of roll at all. Just left yaw, to be countered with right rudder. If the left wheel is pushing down on a takeoff roll (torque), then that's fine. 

A2A nails the mixture perfectly. At our 4600' altitude, mixture (real life) would be between a third & one half travel for takeoff. Many simulated planes do not portray this well.

The torque doesn't disappear after take-off. I did some experiments in the 172 that I rent. The 172 will roll to the left and yaw to the left if you release the yolk and rudder, on a climb. Chop the power and it will roll slightly to the right. I am not sure if it's a combination of Spiral/Torque, or one of the two. Ive flown a couple N models and they exhibit the same behavior. 

[LAdamson 240]

The torque doesn't disappear after take-off. I did some experiments in the 172 that I rent. The 172 will roll to the left and yaw to the left if you release the yolk and rudder, on a climb. Chop the power and it will roll slightly to the right. I am not sure if it's a combination of Spiral/Torque, or one of the two. Ive flown a couple N models and they exhibit the same behavior. 

A few years ago, Austin Meyer produced a video in his Columbia 400, to show "torque roll", when power was applied. Since I had been making a big deal about X-Plane's incorrect torque roll....................someone told me "checkmate" before I had a chance to see the video. My reply, was that Austin's feet had to be off the rudder pedals. And sure enough, they were off. The video plainly showed the airplane yawing to the left, before it started to roll. These planes have dihedral  in the wings, and will roll due to yaw coupling, if you're not holding the yaw in check with rudder. The plane can be made to roll either way, just with rudder.  A high wing also acts as dihedral.

 

I've told the story before, about a friend & instructor who flew the single engine Douglas Skyraider in Vietnam, with 2600 horsepower. It was the most powerful single engine prop plane in the military. Like a P-51, this plane will easily roll over on it's back, in a wave off on an aircraft carrier, or go-around, if you hit full throttle at slow landing airspeeds. With all of this X-Plane "torque" issue going on..................I asked him about using aileron on takeoff. His immediate response was "WRONG control. It's rudder!"

 

This is an X-Plane problem. Simmers have come to believe that rolling in some right aileron is the normal procedure on the takeoff run & climbout.  On the takeoff roll, torque can certainly be very present. My RV6 with it's constant speed prop, 180HP, & short wings was like a torque monster on a touch & go. The mains would press hard on the left wheel. This also requires more right rudder because of that. I'd also be using some right aileron to level the wing. But,,,,,,,,,,,,,and you'll often notice, some planes will dip to the right on takeoff, because we're maybe still holding some right aileron.

 

Once that airspeed is enough for a good rotation, the effects of torque are wiped out by the slipstream & lift. You'll never find a pilot's flight report, that talks about holding right aileron to stop a left roll, on normal takeoffs.  They always mention rudder. The only time you'll see torque roll & takeoffs together, is low airspeed combined with instant high power, as in warbirds, or RC airplanes (or X-Plane forums). Many hand tossed RC planes, or those which are allowed to drift far to the left, will end up with a left cartwheel to the ground.

 

Carenado airplanes which are re-worked for XP-10, use a method of lowering overall torque, until Austin fixes the problem. Some believe that needing  aileron & aileron trim, is more challinging, and makes the sim somehow more fun. Others think that a FSX plane has poor flight dynamics, because it doesn't roll. X-Plane does create torque. It just misses out on other forces, that over-ride the torque.

[strider1 575]

A few years ago, Austin Meyer produced a video in his Columbia 400, to show "torque roll", when power was applied. Since I had been making a big deal about X-Plane's incorrect torque roll....................someone told me "checkmate" before I had a chance to see the video. My reply, was that Austin's feet had to be off the rudder pedals. And sure enough, they were off. The video plainly showed the airplane yawing to the left, before it started to roll. These planes have dihedral  in the wings, and will roll due to yaw coupling, if you're not holding the yaw in check with rudder. The plane can be made to roll either way, just with rudder.  A high wing also acts as dihedral.

 

I've told the story before, about a friend & instructor who flew the single engine Douglas Skyraider in Vietnam, with 2600 horsepower. It was the most powerful single engine prop plane in the military. Like a P-51, this plane will easily roll over on it's back, in a wave off on an aircraft carrier, or go-around, if you hit full throttle at slow landing airspeeds. With all of this X-Plane "torque" issue going on..................I asked him about using aileron on takeoff. His immediate response was "WRONG control. It's rudder!"

 

This is an X-Plane problem. Simmers have come to believe that rolling in some right aileron is the normal procedure on the takeoff run & climbout.  On the takeoff roll, torque can certainly be very present. My RV6 with it's constant speed prop, 180HP, & short wings was like a torque monster on a touch & go. The mains would press hard on the left wheel. This also requires more right rudder because of that. I'd also be using some right aileron to level the wing. But,,,,,,,,,,,,,and you'll often notice, some planes will dip to the right on takeoff, because we're maybe still holding some right aileron.

 

Once that airspeed is enough for a good rotation, the effects of torque are wiped out by the slipstream & lift. You'll never find a pilot's flight report, that talks about holding right aileron to stop a left roll, on normal takeoffs.  They always mention rudder. The only time you'll see torque roll & takeoffs together, is low airspeed combined with instant high power, as in warbirds, or RC airplanes (or X-Plane forums). Many hand tossed RC planes, or those which are allowed to drift far to the left, will end up with a left cartwheel to the ground.

 

Carenado airplanes which are re-worked for XP-10, use a method of lowering overall torque, until Austin fixes the problem. Some believe that needing  aileron & aileron trim, is more challinging, and makes the sim somehow more fun. Others think that a FSX plane has poor flight dynamics, because it doesn't roll. X-Plane does create torque. It just misses out on other forces, that over-ride the torque.

 

I had to Google yaw coupling. It looks like one wing is longer then the other when the plane yaws to one side, so one wing develops more lift, making the plane roll to one side. I still think there is some torque at play there. Regardless I rather have some torque then nothing at all, since the spiral is broken. How well is the left turning tendencies model in the A2A 172 ?

 

I am not sure about aileron on climb out, never really paid attention.  Will have to test next time I go flying ! Might be a while, its so expensive to fly now ;(

 

The elevator trim seems to be way off in the Aerofoillabs 172. I have to adjust the trim when first boot it up, otherwise it will climb-out on it's own.

 

[LAdamson 240]

I don't have the A2A 172.  The A2A 182 & Piper Cherokee do real well on the takeoff. Feels like the real thing. It's right rudder on takeoff, and initial climb. Then as airspeed builds, it's the rudder trim tab, or offset vert. stab, that keep these things going straight. In the case of the Piper, it can be bias springs which exert some pull on the rudder cable, as a form of trimming. What we don't want, is the need to use ailerons on the climbout to stop roll. And especially in cruise, when we're making power adjustments.  There are some sim models out there, that I felt to be completely annoying. I'd quit after five minutes. Yet, as mentioned before, some think it's part of the challenge.  I have many steep climb pics from my RV, in which the ailerons are centered.  One thing about many of us experimental class builders, is that we tried to obtain perfection with airframe straightness.  The RV has perfectly matched wings on each side. There is no incidence change to stop some form of roll. Designers haven't used that idea since the 1920's. There are a few exceptions, that were applied to some military & Reno racing airplanes. Any time that you're using adjustments to stop roll, from less than perfect airframes, you're also creating additional drag.

 

Since my RV had a fixed rudder tab, to eliminate yaw at cruise speed, it would also require some left rudder in a high speed descent, when power is pulled back.  And FWIW, small planes such as the Piper Cherokees & Cessna 172's don't even have aileron trim. My RV did, but that was for fuel & passenger balance. The stick forces to balance it out (roll wise), were extremely light.  If there is no rudder tabs, or offset vertical stabilizer...............the foot pressure on the pedal to keep from yawing is very hard on the foot/leg. Hard enough, that we'll just usually let the plane yaw, as with a Pitts on a long cross country flight.

[jerry allen 3]

To LAdamson,

 

The Skyraider was a great airplane, but was not the most powerful single engine piston machine.  Look up the Martin Mauler sometime.  It had 3000HP.  The Skyraider replaced it.

 

jetjerry

[ohsirus 241]

UPDATE Available

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=87921#entry938068

 

Dear Users,

 

We are very happy that you enjoy our aircraft and that it is already very popular. We are sorry we are not able to respond at a reasonable time to all comments, but we are working hard on development of new functionality and correcting imperfections. We are closely monitoring your requests and posts and will respond asap.

We are releasing an updated version available on http://store.x-plane...hawk_p_401.html.

1. We have optimised the performance and released 3 versions with a performance improvements aprox. from 4 - 35 FPS. Even the high_res version was optimised:

Airfoillabs_C172SP_high_res.acf
Airfoillabs_C172SP_medium_res.acf
Airfoillabs_C172SP_low_res.acf
 

Nevertheless this aircraft features a highly detailed 3D model and greatly improved technology. Even after optimisation this aircraft will place greater demands on your hardware than default X-plane aircraft. The plane looks best if you have at least "draw per pixel lighting" checked. To achieve greater FPS (frames per second), you can disable HDR Rendering in Rendering Options, this will improve your fps. It is still necessary to meet at least the hardware requirement as stated on the store: "X-Plane 10.36+, Windows, Mac or Linux - 64bit version, 8Gb RAM - 2.5Ghz CPU, 1Gb+ Dedicated VRAM Video Card".

 

2. MAC USERS

We have tested our LOW RES model on MacBook Pro Retina 2012 notebook with dedicated GeForce GT 650M 1024MB with following results (Find attached the MAC rendering option). We have used the locality around the default Seatle airport.

Airfoillabs_C172SP_low_res.acf - around 29 FPS
Default X-plane 172 - around 33 FPS

 

3. We have fixed a bug in SETTINGS, SMART CAMERA option. In case you are located in 3D cockpit and all options of SMART CAMERA are off (Attached Screen), the default functionality is preserved and TrackIR and X-Camera should work correctly. (We will welcome any comments.)

When you are used to default X-plane camera and are in 3D view and SMART CAMERA functions are off - QUICK CAMERA Views are predefined and available (Attached screenshots).

 

4. We have corrected the texture FUEL SHUTOFF PULL OFF (Attached Screen).

GENERAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN:
1. We are working on detailed Manual. First version will be released on Tuesday 4.8. evening.
2. Sounds corrections and 3D model corrections.
3. We are planning to release the ENGINE SERVICE PANEL and CHECK LISTS feature until the end of August 2015.
4. We are analysing FS Economy and trying to find a solution for future updates. Currently as all the systems are modelled very closely to the reality, some functionality is blocked. For example there is the whole electrical system logic with circuit breakers so the radios are not responding to the plugin. We will keep you informed about a possible solution.

Have a good flight. 

Juraj
Airfoillabs

[Vliegkat 0]

Hi, Maybe you guys can answer my question.

 

I very recently started using X-plane and want to buy this as my first payware aircraft. I run X-plane on my PC and my laptop ( depending on where I am ). Is is possible to activate this product on both systems? I am not aware of how the licensing and usage agreements are set up. I did send the developer a message from their website but have not received a response yet.