MU-2 Elevator Trim Tabs

[Flysimware 647]

Louis i first posted how the elevator trim tab works as i thought that was what the post was about. Now i just checked the model you asked me to check and when i move the wheel up the tabs goes down and when i move the wheel down the tab goes up just like all of my other aircraft. So it is confirmed there is nothing wrong with this product. Think of it as there was a cover covering most of the wheel with the front of the wheel exposed. Then you will see the direction the wheel is moving. This may help since the entire wheel is exposed.

 

Our support for bugs is located on our help page at our website. Joe who is our beta captain is who runs this forum and has nothing to do with me since this support is to help customers and give them news. But you can start at topic on a major issue but unless we see the post we can't help you so please report at our website as well.

 

No reason for negative posting. And there is some positive posts as well, thanks for that as there is no reason to complain. The forums is not for publicly talking about how a Company runs their business or any other Company. Any further complaints on how we run our business may get reported to Avsim. Please keep your posts about the topic!

 

Also there is no reason to compare a 1 man developer to a Company that has more than 5 developers. If we had 5 developers it would take 2 months to make a perfect aircraft. I think i do pretty good for 1 guy with tech help from our other members. It takes me about 4 to 6 months to create 1 product. And i have not posted any news on the Lear here at Avsim at all. So why do you keep telling me you don't want to hear about this product until i finish the MU. The MU was finished 5 month ago. You need to check your Calender as your time is a bit off. But i want to say i respect all customers and i will research and fix any major issue that you find as long as they are major issues. So please keep your posts to the topic!

[CSCARLOS 0]

 

 

Louis i first posted how the elevator trim tab works as i thought that was what the post was about. Now i just checked the model you asked me to check and when i move the wheel up the tabs goes down and when i move the wheel down the tab goes up just like all of my other aircraft. So it is confirmed there is nothing wrong with this product.

 

Sorry....I suggest you do a better research about this matter.

Efectively, when you move the wheel down the tab goes up...this is WRONG...
You move the wheel down for trimming nose-up and it's correctly confirmed by the Elev Trim Indicator reference line displacing down to the nose-up range... BUT the Trim Tabs raising in relation to the elevator is WRONG...  To release backward pressure on the yoke (elevator UP) the Trim tab must move DOWN (opposite) to keep the elevator UP.

Just to conclude:

Elevator and Rudder Trimming animations are wrong - to be fixed.
Lateral (Roll) trimming is correct.
Cockpit Trim wheels movement and corresponding Indicators are correct.

Cheers

 

[louisdecoolste 12]

What he said. No further discussion required. Just fixing. 

[MBaclawski 11]

While your at it  how about Fixing the Autopilot so when yo reach the Desired altitude the  ALT Cap  light goes off and the ALT hold comes on like

it's Supposed to.

 

I hope you understand some of the  Frustration, we all realise that people have a life, I do as well and believe me you don't want to walk in my shoes

right now. I myself couldn't wait for a MU-2 and so I took the chance hoping that I would have a project that would continue to be updated and fine tuned

but you ran off to do the Lear. Not sure if that's your Bad or my Bad  but I'm  guessing that the MU was and will be your best seller.

[louisdecoolste 12]

Well we've had more news on the Lear, nothing at all on the remediation of this issue for existing customers. So I'm guessing that's that.

Marty, it's not You Bad. 

 

Sadly I think it's time to move on. Support response times have become intermittent and sparse while the developers get on with their excuses/lives. Disinterest at both ends means it's probably time we do likewise. 

 

Such a shame as good developers are hard to find.

 

Wonder if the trim tabs on the Lear will work correctly? 

[mjrhealth 820]

Would never of noticed if it hadnt being mentioned, still cant see tha tfrom teh cockpit and would need to zoom right in so isnt a bother for most.

[louisdecoolste 12]

Same here. it wasn't mentioned in earlier complex discussions that led to fixes, but now that it's highlighted it's pretty fundamental to the perceptions of some customers apparently, so needs fixing.

Unless they don't care about current customers in the focus on finding new ones with the next release. Which would be a mistake.

 

As well as `lesson learning`  - I guess all their releases need reviewing in the same light as it throws doubt on the technical competence of the developer. This will be my only Flysimware product so can't check the rest. I can't risk the Lear not being good enough. It's my money and I like to spend it wisely.

 

Shame really, as I thought the ongoing commitment to improving the product would lead to a Real Air or A2A- style customer care approach by the vendor. But they've demonstrated a short attention span like so many others. 

[mjrhealth 820]

From what I see the ylearn from each new model, than hopefully will go back and use those new thinhgs on teh older models. Get more business that way. Unlike some others

[louisdecoolste 12]

From what I see the ylearn from each new model, than hopefully will go back and use those new thinhgs on teh older models. Get more business that way. Unlike some others

 

Could be a lot of trim tab fixing coming, then. Personally, I'd prefer them fix things before they move on. After all, they've taken the money.

[Flysimware 647]

So you guys are saying you want the elevator trim tab to point down to fly up?

 

This aircraft uses trim tabs not balance tabs nor antiservo tabs!!!!!!

 

Trim tabs do not move the control surface linkage. They are on their own linkage and act like the main control surface. 

 

1) TRIM TABS: 

Roll the wheel in the nose up position, and the tab moves down. Roll the wheel in the nose down direction, and the tab moves up. 

2) Balance Tabs: 

Some aircraft have very heavy control loads, especially at high speeds. That's where balance tabs come in handy. Balance tabs look like trim tabs, but they have one major difference: balance tabs are attached to the control surface linkage, so when the control surface is moved in one direction, the balance tab moves in the opposite direction.

3) Antiservo Tabs: 

Antiservo tabs are similar to balance tabs, but they move in the opposite direction. For example, when your elevator or stabilator moves up, the antiservo tab moves in the same direction.

4) Ground Adjustable Tabs:

The fourth and final tab is the ground adjustable tab. If you've flown a training airplane, there's a good chance it had one of these on the rudder. Ground adjustable tabs are just that: only adjustable on the ground. So how do you adjust it? By bending it left or right, preferably between two solid surfaces, like blocks of wood. But before you run out and start adjusting the tab yourself, it's a good idea to see what your POH or mechanic recommends first.

 

And you guys keep getting on my case that i am ignoring this fix when i have nothing to fix. My beta testers passed the model as correct and i passed the trim tab as i made the product but 2 people say it's wrong and 99% of other customers never mentioned this issue. Like i said i would fix it if it was wrong but according to everyone it's correct. Now you post that my sells will go down hill because i don't want to fix something that is not broken or waiting for more evidence on this topic.

 

Here is a list of updates for the MU coming this Fall: (It's better to do all updates at the same time since there is a lot of stores to update. I have been collecting feedback for 4 months and will do this after the release of the Lear. I do this for all projects. And as the Lear bugs are being reported i will be working on the MU and updating the Lear for the first 4 weeks until all major bugs are fixed just like i did on the MU. When the MU got released i updated the Cessna 441 with all updated collected over 4 months. So this pattern seems to work as the 4 or 5 months gives a good amount of time to collect small minor updates and new features. If i update our partners stores every time we find 1 bug they will no longer want my products on their site. So i hope this information gives you an idea on what it takes to be a good developer. And according to my emails i have the best customer service in the industry. We email back within 24 hours 7 days a week 365 days a year. But unless you use our email ticket system forums are not my job as Joe takes care of Avsim. He has been working 2 jobs and so i am here to post for him.

 

Props getting more blur effects

Adding GPU unit.

Dimmer lights

Updating manual to show avionic switch location.

Fuel transfer ability using Doug's fuel dump gauge (Paying for commercial use)

[louisdecoolste 12]

 

So you guys are saying you want the elevator trim tab to point down to fly up?

 

This aircraft uses trim tabs not balance tabs nor antiservo tabs!!!!!!

 

Trim tabs do not move the control surface linkage. They are on their own linkage and act like the main control surface. 

 

1) TRIM TABS: 

Roll the wheel in the nose up position, and the tab moves down. Roll the wheel in the nose down direction, and the tab moves up. 

2) Balance Tabs: 

Some aircraft have very heavy control loads, especially at high speeds. That's where balance tabs come in handy. Balance tabs look like trim tabs, but they have one major difference: balance tabs are attached to the control surface linkage, so when the control surface is moved in one direction, the balance tab moves in the opposite direction.

3) Antiservo Tabs: 

Antiservo tabs are similar to balance tabs, but they move in the opposite direction. For example, when your elevator or stabilator moves up, the antiservo tab moves in the same direction.

4) Ground Adjustable Tabs:

The fourth and final tab is the ground adjustable tab. If you've flown a training airplane, there's a good chance it had one of these on the rudder. Ground adjustable tabs are just that: only adjustable on the ground. So how do you adjust it? By bending it left or right, preferably between two solid surfaces, like blocks of wood. But before you run out and start adjusting the tab yourself, it's a good idea to see what your POH or mechanic recommends first.

 

And you guys keep getting on my case that i am ignoring this fix when i have nothing to fix. My beta testers passed the model as correct and i passed the trim tab as i made the product but 2 people say it's wrong and 99% of other customers never mentioned this issue. Like i said i would fix it if it was wrong but according to everyone it's correct. Now you post that my sells will go down hill because i don't want to fix something that is not broken or waiting for more evidence on this topic.

 

Here is a list of updates for the MU coming this Fall: (It's better to do all updates at the same time since there is a lot of stores to update. I have been collecting feedback for 4 months and will do this after the release of the Lear. I do this for all projects. And as the Lear bugs are being reported i will be working on the MU and updating the Lear for the first 4 weeks until all major bugs are fixed just like i did on the MU. When the MU got released i updated the Cessna 441 with all updated collected over 4 months. So this pattern seems to work as the 4 or 5 months gives a good amount of time to collect small minor updates and new features. If i update our partners stores every time we find 1 bug they will no longer want my products on their site. So i hope this information gives you an idea on what it takes to be a good developer. And according to my emails i have the best customer service in the industry. We email back within 24 hours 7 days a week 365 days a year. But unless you use our email ticket system forums are not my job as Joe takes care of Avsim. He has been working 2 jobs and so i am here to post for him.

 

Props getting more blur effects

Adding GPU unit.

Dimmer lights

Updating manual to show avionic switch location.

Fuel transfer ability using Doug's fuel dump gauge (Paying for commercial use)

 

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/473498-mu-2-elevator-trim-tabs/#entry3286669

 

Specifically

 

 

As for the trim tabs. Look again. 

N130MS : Nose down trim (i.e. to trim the force out of a nose down application of elevator by application of nose down trim as seen on the forward movement on the gauge in the cockpit) shows the elevator trim tab rotating down, not up. If these are standard servo tabs they MUST operate in the opposite direction to the force being applied.

 

Your model does not do this, the tabs move in the same direction as the trim indicator - down for down, up for up. Or to put it another way, in the same plane as the control surface - forward yoke = down elevator, back yoke = up elevator. This is just wrong unless they act as anti-servos. And we are still waiting for confirmation on this point from you, the developer. Surely this was part of your basic research before selling the model to us public?

 

Rather than merely repeating a previous post, which is insulting, please actually read what your customers are telling you, explore the assertion and deal with it directly. Frankly, this adversarial attitude against the customer is really getting old. Your real problem is with the development and beta team.

 

Putting it politely, physical results demonstrate inconsistency with your own assertions.

 

This level of support is not what I paid for. First and definitely last Flysimware purchase. 

[capceo 117]

The bottom line is this.

 

The beta team and development team, which you seem to believe is flawed in one way or another, do their best to respond to customer inquiries and concerns as quickly as possible.

 

I'm sorry that you're unhappy louisdecoolste. I'll remind you again, as I have in the past, that all of us, with the exception of Mark, have real jobs, that pay us real money, and pay our real bills. The same real bills that you, I would think, have to deal with. And yet, we STILL find time to pop in here and try to and answer questions and concerns. Most people who work for a developer won't do a thing without a paycheck.

 

Other developers, specifically a notable organization from Chile, pays 7-10 developers full time salaries to produce aircraft, and offer ZERO personal or forum based support.

 

I really wish you would consider the effects that prolonged comments like yours have had on this small world of developers in the past. Many developers have spent countless hours producing fantastic products that generate very little revenue, only to decide to pack up shop and get out of the development world because their efforts go unappreciated.

 

Unfortunately, some people are just impossible to please. The FS community was begging for an MU-2 for years. So we answer the call and deliver the first quality MU-2 ever seen for FS. And what do we get in return? Flak.

 

I'll leave you with this. Most of our customers understand that we are still growing and evolving as a developer. So many of you have noticed, as I have, the continued improvement with each one of our products. We don't intend to stop improving now. Thank you to those who continue to support us.

 

 

To address the actual issue at hand, I'll give you both my perspective as the beta captain, and my perspective as a real world pilot, since it seems that the latter has been lacking in this discussion.

 

As a tester/developer: I was unable to recreate the issue. My trim tabs move exactly in the direction they are supposed to for the commanded pitch trim input.

 

As a real pilot: As a real pilot, I can assure you that the pitch trim tabs are not visible from the cockpit.

I think its a little ridiculous that this discussion has progressed this far. 

 

 

I will attempt one more time to recreate the issue. Perhaps a YouTube video with a demonstration and explanation is in order?
 

[LAdamson 240]

I wish I could see the actual trim tab movement, the trim wheel mount position, and the trim gauge itself.  Kind of interested in the trim gauge, since it's mentioned so often.  Depending on where the gauge is mounted...........on different airplanes, and what the symbols on it look like............. the gauge itself can either move up for up trim, or move up (forward) for down trim, as though it's symbolizing moving forward (down pitch) on the stick.  Personally, I liked gauges next to the trim knobs, that move in the same direction as a stick or yoke will.  It's designers preference. It's the reason gauges will come with two sets of decals or trim plates, to work with either method. 

[MBaclawski 11]

Actually Joe the bottom line is that "customers" shelled out $40 Taking the chance and getting a decent quality MU-2 from a Startup company. No project is perfect from the start no matter how many paid or 

unpaid people work on it and it doesn't matter where on the globe there located. Customers find bugs and the developer fixes them, sometimes a customer takes there own time and effort and adds to the project only to be told that his time and effort were wasted because his work is not Appreciated by the developer, then the developer moves on to a new project and the customer is left with a unfinished project which I see now was finished  some months ago as far as your concerned. 

 

I also see  that Updates will be coming in the fall right after the Lear is released and we get a GPU cart, I imagine that it will look just like the one for the Lear , How about 5 bladed props instead or maybe a different Variation of the MU-2 possibly some updated textures ,I think that would probably be a little more accepted than a GPU cart. 

 

When you do your Video look at the plane from the outside, trim the plane for level flight and have a look at the trim tabs, when you notice that there all the way up for just a little bit of input you will see that the animation is off. 

 

I hope you folks enjoy your new GPU cart in the months to come, I believe my dealings with all of this have Officially ended. 

[warbirds 555]

Thank god I have better things to do than go to forums and complain about things so trivial..