Where Should I Install P3D?

[SteveW 1,792]

I hear that In Win10 there's the new "Commissioner Gordon" user group, and that they've got more permissions than Batman! :-))

[TheNerd 12]

lol at the "Commissioner Gordon" permission.

 

Anyway, I installed it into the default location and everything seems to be working fine. No crashes and everthing has installed correctly. I just need to do a 2+ hour flight to ensure I don't get the Runtime Error R6025 again. 

 

Oh, and another thing. I just tested out LatinVFR TJSJ. Whenever I look at this specific part of the airport, the framerate goes from 35 to about 8. It's weird and no other scenery does that...

[JJJackson 22]

Steve, I have a question. Why does PMDG and LM recommend to install OUTSIDE the C:\Program Files (x86) folder? We all know that it´s easy to change the permissions but why should we, if we can install it in a different location? Furthermore IF I want to install my FS on a different drive than C: I have to assign a different folder than the default. I have my FS on E:\P3D25 as my C-drive is an 500GB SSD dedicated to my OS and on my E: I have NO folder named Program Files (x86)!!! Sorry to say but IMHO I strongly disagree with you.  :wink:

 

 

Jack

the Swede in Spain

[SteveW 1,792]

You're fixated on Program Files, Jack, I'm talking about permissions, and the effect of them.

 

Remember that making a new folder inherits the permissions of the user, so if you do that or install to a different drive, add the permissions for the Users group there too. Installing outside of Program Files merely creates a different set of possibilities for problems down the line.

However, if you're installing onto one drive, as is the OP, then I still recommend Program Files as the least problems ahead, and no user intervention with location, with of course the ever so simple permission added... Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?

[JJJackson 22]

SteveW that´s exactly my point "Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?" By installing FS OUTSIDE the program folder you make it easy. You also avoided to respond to the part in my posting, where I pointed out that IF you install to a different drive than C: it´s not possible to install within the program folder! Also you didn´t comment the fact that LM and PMDG recommends installing OUTSIDE the program folder! 

Last but not least a "normal" user doesn´t even know HOW to change permissions as that is NOT so easy as you claim. And you call it "the easiest way"! 

 

But let´s just stop here. You recommend your way of doing it, meaning fiddling around with user permissions and against LM/PMDG:s recommendations and I recommend people to follow the developers recommendations! So let´s just let people decide to do what they think is best for them.

:wink:  :smile:   

 

Jack

[logic28 4]

I should continue doing that: the drive doesn't matter that much, but just don't install into the default folder. I have P3D in D:\Prepar3d v2

So using a fresh 500 Gb SSD for just Win7 and P3d + add ons is not good enough?  … 

 

Shall I go back to my FSX style with Win 7 on one SSD and P3D on another?

 

I didn't think with SSD it would make such a difference…

 

It would be easier to make images of the drive if all in one …..

 

Thanks

[SteveW 1,792]

SteveW that´s exactly my point "Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?" By installing FS OUTSIDE the program folder you make it easy. You also avoided to respond to the part in my posting, where I pointed out that IF you install to a different drive than C: it´s not possible to install within the program folder! Also you didn´t comment the fact that LM and PMDG recommends installing OUTSIDE the program folder! 

 

Last but not least a "normal" user doesn´t even know HOW to change permissions as that is NOT so easy as you claim. And you call it "the easiest way"! 

 

But let´s just stop here. You recommend your way of doing it, meaning fiddling around with user permissions and against LM/PMDG:s recommendations and I recommend people to follow the developers recommendations! So let´s just let people decide to do what they think is best for them.

 

:wink:  :smile:   

 

Jack

 

Well no matter Jack, i'm just sticking to my recommendations because I have Clients.

 

Checking that Write permission is as easy as making a folder. This leads to greater reliability for a number of reasons. Making owned folders for apps that write to PF decreases reliability, unless we add Write permission anyway to them.

 

Let's look at why the "must install outside of PF" predicament came about: Back when we had WinXP, an ordinary user had write permissions on the Program Files folder. Even so it was not recommended to place files there that would be written to by a regular log-on User. There's All Users Docs folders for example.

 

None the less many devs continued to make apps that put Write files in the PF folder. I've never done that myself since there's always been a proper place for them.

 

Along come Vista and Win7 and tighter security. So with our apps with files in the read only places, we now find we have files in folders that we don't ordinarily have Write permission to.

 

We found the sim seemed to work OK with addons if it was installed into it's own folder outside PF, but it wasn't generally known that's because a regular user has Write permission to his own folder. Although only that current User could Write to it, the idea of placing it outside PF was borne.

 

Those products keenly recommending putting FSX in its own folder are generally those that have files that need the Write permission in a read only place.

 

When we log onto Windows we become a member of the authenticated Users group.

 

If we look at the permissions on our own folders, we see the Users group does not have permissions to it. Any problems with our profile down the line, say we make a new profile, and we're toast. Other problems might arise with networking and some other software interaction.

 

However, it's recommended to add the Write permission for the Users group on folders we create for APPS to INSTALL into anyway.

 

So in that case, why not just let the installer install where it wants and put the Write permission on. In my experience we have a more reliable sim setup and less user intervention down the line.

 

[SteveW 1,792]

...Forgot to say that LM's recommendation is to install into Program Files, as can be seen by the installation program default location. And in a recent discussion I even noticed PMDG recommending the permission be added which cured the problems mentioned.

[vgbaron 3,486]

Steve - I don't argue that it can easily be done. I don't argue that it is easier for the program installer. My problem is that it leads to more problems than it solves. Why? Because, sadly, a great majority of users barely know what a permission is, much less how to set them. Sure it's easy for you, it's easy for me and anyone else relatively computer literate.

 

the forums still have many who post about the sudden lockup, add-ons not working, etc that can be related to permissions - as long as that is the case, I can NOT recommend to anyone to use the default install UNLESS they know what they're doing. To do so is asking for trouble, IMHO.

 

 

My other reason is similar to Bills - I like the F:\P3D path much better than C:\Program FIles(x86)

 

Vic

[n4gix 4,947]

Quite frankly, although it doesn't ordinarily affect the average simmer, budding developers are quite often caught out by the character limit for command line utility programs, such as are prevalent in the various SDK tools.

 

I long ago lost count of these edge cases where the only solution was for them to rearrange things to use shorter paths.

[Bobsk8 12,489]

...Forgot to say that LM's recommendation is to install into Program Files, as can be seen by the installation program default location. And in a recent discussion I even noticed PMDG recommending the permission be added which cured the problems mentioned.

 

I have been installing programs into the programs folder forever, and have never had any problem. Don't understand why so many people find it problematic.    

[vgbaron 3,486]

I have been installing programs into the programs folder forever, and have never had any problem. Don't understand why so many people find it problematic.

The problem is that some add-ons donot follow the proper protocols and try to put r/w files in an area without proper permissions. Sometimes this causes the program(s) to abort with cryptic messages which can bewilder many users.

 

In a perfect world all developers would be on the same page - but this is not a perfect world and the simplest solution is to not install in the protected (x86) area.

 

Simply - it causes no problems to install outside of the default but it CAN cause problems to install IN the default location which can totally confuse the user if the program crashes.

 

And BTW, LM does not RECOMMEND the default install - they just copied it from the old FSX/ESP which was written at the time when the default location was not a "special" folder.

 

AGAIN - I am not saying it is wrong, just less hassle for some users.

 

Vic

[JJJackson 22]

Thanks Vic, a posting based on facts, not fiction!  :smile: But on the other hand, people are free to install in any drive/folder they like, but when they get problems...... Guess the topic starter has facts enough to make his decision. So.... time to close thnis topic or?

 

 

Jack

the Swede in Spain

[TheNerd 12]

Yep. Everything works fine. Hopefully somebody else could use this topic in case he/she needs help. Thanks for the input guys!