Trying to achieve the Dream of Smooth Stutter Free Simming

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

Just finished testing.

YSSY FlyTampa + PMDG777 - rather heavy combination.

 

FSX internal limiter set for 20 / 30 / 60 fps - all three settings are giving slideshow, cannot say that there is any smoothness.

FSX internal limiter set to zero, NVI set to 30 plus 1/2 refresh rate - way higher fps, but what is more important almost perfect smoothness.

There is no comparison between FSX limiter and NVI, like heaven to sky.

 

I fully respect scientific approach to smoothness topic, but simply on my system ( 3,8GHz I7 / Win7 64 / 12 GB RAM ) NVI is ultimate winner. 

I think 1/2 refresh rate is helping a lot with smoothness. But this only works in FSX, not P3D. That's why constant 60FPS is needed in P3D to achieve similar result.

[vgbaron 3,610]

I would hope Vic has broad enough shoulders to take it on the chin, after all different points of view make the world go round.

My momma once told me - "If you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen!"

 

No personal offense taken. I think it also comes down to the written word and understanding someone else's meaning. You say for you - 20FPS is choppy - to me - you are saying it is not smooth. I'm saying, all else being equal, get it smooth and it won't be choppy. Now, *WHY* it's not smooth on your system is another story - perhaps with your hardware combination, you cannot get it smooth at 20 no matter what you do.

 

It becomes a simple logic problem:

 

if (smooth & 20) & (smooth & 30) then difference = 0

 

if difference not 0 then not smooth.

 

Obviously this is a GENERALIZATION - it will not be the same for everyone for varying reasons - but it's worth a try. If it doesn't feel right - move on - the object is enjoyment not frustration.

 

Vic

[JLSeagull 191]

You guys giving vic a hard time about 20fps. Doesn't it seem obvious to recommend someone new at this; start at 20fps fixed and work up? Recommending to all and sundry to start out at 30 means getting lots of discusions about stutter, methinks. :Shame On You:

 

+1 Steve. C'mon Chaps - agree to disagree. This is starting to feel like the fifth go-around at an empty Regional on a fine day.

[Poppet 703]

 David  :smile:    I agree,  Vic is De-Man, also a massive fountain of knowledge 

[vgbaron 3,610]

also a massive fountain of knowledge

you calling me fat Elaine??

 

 

Vic

[GSalden 4,656]

My pc is very powerfull and I use Fiber Accelerator too :

- below 2500 ft --> 19 fps

- 2501 ft - 6000 ft --> 22 fps

- 6000 + ft --> sometimes P3D locked at 30 ( 4 cloudlayers / clouds density max ) , sometimes at Unlimited ( fair weather )

 

This works great on my system with photo scenery only.

 

About the fps discussion : 20 fps with equally spread frames looks smoother than 60 fps with small jitters..

Making small turns at a high speed will look better with 60 fps jitterfree than with 20 fps jitterfree.

 

There is no more to it.

 

However I have yet to meet the first flightsimmer who sees the difference between 30 fps jitterfree and 60 fps jitterfree....

[Poppet 703]

you calling me fat Elaine??

 

 

Vic

LOL In an endearing way though 

 

Interesting thread, great read 

[Guest]

Conversely, there are times in P3D where I'm at 120-140 FPS but time frame consistency is terrible even though it's very low (in terms of ms) ... without VSynch it's definitely NOT a "smooth" experience even at 140 fps.  Now, turn ON VSynch and triple buffer at 30 Hz or 60 Hz ... "fluidity" returns so long as I can maintain FPS higher then monitor frequency being used.

 

In my experience the "smoothest" defined as lowest average variance in time frames:

 

1.  If I can guarantee > 30 fps then monitor at 30 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

2.  If I can guarantee > 60 fps then monitor at 60 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

3.  If I can NOT guarantee > 30 fps, then monitor at 30 Hz, limiter = 2 FPS below worse case (i.e. worse case = 28 then set to 26)

 

The color space used can also impact visuals just as the type of connection used to the monitor (DVI-D, DVI-I, HDMI 1.4, HDMI 2.0, DisplayPort 1.2, DisplayPort 1.3, etc.).

 

Cheers, Rob.

[JLSeagull 191]

Just when I thought that the thread was settling down ...... He's at it again!!!       Ding Ding - Round Two. 

[vgbaron 3,610]

Just when I thought that the thread was settling down ...... He's at it again!!!       Ding Ding - Round Two. 

Hey JL - we're all waiting around for 3.0 - we HAVE to talk about something!!

 

 

Vic

 

[Slayer 190]

Conversely, there are times in P3D where I'm at 120-140 FPS but time frame consistency is terrible even though it's very low (in terms of ms) ... without VSynch it's definitely NOT a "smooth" experience even at 140 fps.  Now, turn ON VSynch and triple buffer at 30 Hz or 60 Hz ... "fluidity" returns so long as I can maintain FPS higher then monitor frequency being used.

 

In my experience the "smoothest" defined as lowest average variance in time frames:

 

1.  If I can guarantee > 30 fps then monitor at 30 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

2.  If I can guarantee > 60 fps then monitor at 60 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

3.  If I can NOT guarantee > 30 fps, then monitor at 30 Hz, limiter = 2 FPS below worse case (i.e. worse case = 28 then set to 26)

 

The color space used can also impact visuals just as the type of connection used to the monitor (DVI-D, DVI-I, HDMI 1.4, HDMI 2.0, DisplayPort 1.2, DisplayPort 1.3, etc.).

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

This is why I make a profile for each aircraft and save it. There really is no all for one settings unless you run everything on low all the time. It seems a majority of people overlook the profiles. Once you get them setup it's one click to switch settings for say a PMDG where your lucky to hold 25 FPS to a default where you can run at 60 FPS.

 

Only problem you face is not being able to specify the refresh rate without exiting the sim ( or can you change it on the fly?)

[Alec 370]

I really can't imagine not being able to see the difference between 20 and 60 fps. Even though 20fps is way smoother than 60 in Prepar3d, meaning that I don't get Stutter, the fluidity of 60FPS is unbeatable. Unfortunately P3D at 60fps at all times is something no current PC is able to do nowadays

[SteveW 1,792]

Those talking about a 20Hz slide show... When panning, the panning angle increment reduces with frame rate increases; so don't mix up sim smoothness with it. The panning increment can be adjusted if need be.

[mickatmian 52]

+1 Steve. C'mon Chaps - agree to disagree. This is starting to feel like the fifth go-around at an empty Regional on a fine day.

 

 

Just when I thought that the thread was settling down ...... He's at it again!!!       Ding Ding - Round Two. 

 

Over 2 hrs between the above posts.

 

I am guessing, but it appears that your posts are aimed at me. If that is the case why are you hiding in the corner behind your trainer? if you have a useful contribution then why dont you add to the thread instead of your post count?.

 

Note I did not post anything between your two posts, in fact I have not posted since Sunday. Perhaps it was not aimed at me after all, in which case I with draw my comment.

 

 

 

I think 1/2 refresh rate is helping a lot with smoothness. But this only works in FSX, not P3D. That's why constant 60FPS is needed in P3D to achieve similar result.

 

Spot on, I can run 4 screens in FSX at 30 fps smooth as silk, the only problem is I prefer P3d. 

 

Mick

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

1.  If I can guarantee > 30 fps then monitor at 30 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

2.  If I can guarantee > 60 fps then monitor at 60 Hz - Vsynch ON - Tripple buffer ON - Unlimited

3.  If I can NOT guarantee > 30 fps, then monitor at 30 Hz, limiter = 2 FPS below worse case (i.e. worse case = 28 then set to 26

So, in most cases it's 30Hz or no fluidity because if addons are used it's quite hard to nearly impossible to maintain 60FPS with any machine. Than you need a monitor that supports 30Hz. I tried it on my Samsung but no luck, it wouldn't let me change the refresh rate, no matter what. If LM would keep true full screen than 1/2 refresh rate vsync would work and most of us would be enjoying fluid P3D.