Regardless of what country those Emails are stored in. Meanwhile windows 10 will continue sucking up emails like a vacuum cleaner. I tend to agree with the poster who said this whole farce is just Kabuki theater, to make it look like MS is is fighting for its customers when in fact they have a long history of deals with the government.

 

Microsoft Privacy policy:

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary. 

 

http://www.techworm.net/2015/09/doj-says-it-can-demand-any-and-every-email-from-service-providers.html

 

Excerpt:

The United States Department of Justice has told the federal appeals court that it has the right to demand the emails of anyone in the world from any email provider headquartered within US borders.

 

The DoJ made the submission in the second circuit court of appeals is between the US and Microsoft over the US government’s right to demand user emails from Microsoft held on a Hotmail server in Ireland.

 

Microsoft holds the position that the United State government has no right over the emails as they are hosted in a country outside the jurisdiction of US.

 

Big tech firms and media houses like Apple, the government of Ireland, Fox News, NPR and the Guardian have filed amicus briefs with the federal court, arguing the case could set a precedent for governments around the world to seize information held in the cloud.  It is worth noting the judges of two courts have already ruled against Microsoft twice.

 

Microsoft’s counsel contended that the US search warrant should not have been used to compel it to hand over emails stored in Ireland. “This is an execution of law enforcement seizure on their land,” Joshua Rosenkranz, counsel for Microsoft, told the court. “We would go crazy if China did this to us.”

In today's climate after the NSA scandal, I don't think the court of appeals will side with the DOJ this time. At least I hope not. One exception if the emails are from US citizens or residents  which would be under US jurisdiction, then I think (With a search warrant) the DOJ should have access. Just because Microsoft chooses to house them in a foreign country is irrelevant. In fact a US company doing so to avoid the government executing what would otherwise be a lawful search if stored on a US server could be construed as Obstruction of Justice. If the emails are from outside the US, then I agree the US DOJ should have no jurisdiction. It would be up to local government law enforcement, in this case Ireland to take any action for activity in their jurisdiction. 

China will move to Linux, so why shouldn't I?!?

One exception if the emails are from US citizens or residents  which would be under US jurisdiction, then I think (With a search warrant) the DOJ should have access. Just because Microsoft chooses to house them in a foreign country is irrelevant. In fact a US company doing so to avoid the government executing what would otherwise be a lawful search if stored on a US server could be construed as Obstruction of Justice.

 

Yet US corporations create subsidiaries overseas to avoid taxes all the time, and the practice is long established and carefully protected.....

 

I would also wonder that if any email stored on the server of any company based in the US (which Microsoft is) is up for grabs, how many foreign governments would be comfortable with using windows 10 knowing that it states up front that it intends to gobble data (including your passwords, which must surely be a nightmare for any company) like Pac Man.

 

One also wonders how we would respond if China began demanding that all emails of Chinese companies and maybe nationals be turned over on demand? How about Russia? North Korea? Syria?

 

Slippery slopes.......

 

And a scorecard. https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-requests-2015

Three letters:  GPG

 

scott s.

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Three letters: GPG

 

scott s.

.

Of course, we shouldn't even need to do stuff like that. The fact that just like chinese citizens and people in despotic regimes, it's becoming judicious to play tag with our own government is kind of depressing.

 

I wonder what type of surveillance state my little niece and nephews will grow up in. Will they even understand what the America I pledged allegiance to as a kid was like?

 

Maybe I'm just one of the "Deeply cynical" Maybe I just need to be "Properly incentivized" http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/fbi-intel-chiefs-decry-deep-cynicism-over-cyber-spying-programs/

 

And:

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/fbi-chief-tells-senate-committee-were-doomed-without-crypto-backdoors/

 

For anyone actually interested, read the user comments section of this article to see how deep the madness goes. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/us-claim-on-the-worlds-servers-at-a-crossroads/

Well, you can always put up your own smtp server in your bathroom.  Then keep a supply of cloths to wipe it now and then as they say.

 

scott s.

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Well, you can always put up your own smtp server in your bathroom.  Then keep a supply of cloths to wipe it now and then as they say.

 

scott s.

.

:lol: :lol:

States have always intercepted mail.

And in the US all persons are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law ...

 

Chew on that one.....

 

It is supossed to be really hard to convict  ... by it's very nature of the power of government to suppress it's citizens....

It has always been my understanding that email and text messages have always been something that the government has had legal access to if they wanted it, just as they have legal access to your phone records. I think the assumption of privacy has always been far greater than the actual fact.

 

 

And in the US all persons are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law ...

 

So why are accused murderers, for example, put in jail before they are proven guilty in a court of law?

States have always intercepted mail.

 

Thats kind of simplistic, though.

 

You need probable cause and a warrant to get to somebody's mail. The vacuum like data mining that's becoming all too common has nothing to with that. The 4th amendment gets stomped on, and again and again people pop up and say "Get over it."

 

I wonder what the list other rights such people are willing to hand over, would look like?

 

Again, its a good thing that while all too many people snooze away, others are out there fighting to protect and maintain the freedoms we were given.

So why are accused murderers, for example, put in jail before they are proven guilty in a court of law?

 

Simplistic again. Because there is considered to be enough evidence to arrest them. Lawfully gathered evidence. And even then people often post bail or are released for other reasons pending trial unless they are considered a flight risk.

It has always been my understanding that email and text messages have always been something that the government has had legal access to if they wanted it, just as they have legal access to your phone records. I think the assumption of privacy has always been far greater than the actual fact.

 

It's the same thing as above: the fourth amendment and the reasonable expectation of privacy, which the mail carries. You need a warrant, not a vacuum cleaner.

 

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects personal privacy, and every citizen's right to be free from unreasonable government intrusion into their persons, homes, businesses, and property -- whether through police stops of citizens on the street, arrests, or searches of homes and businesses. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/search-and-seizure-and-the-fourth-amendment.html#sthash.8GCY0ar7.dpuf

 

As a general rule, mail has always been included in things for which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. As usual however, whenever you place the word "electronic" or "internet" in front of something, certain organizations try to put forward that it's somehow different, and that the standard legal restrictions no longer apply (or should be modified) usually under the argument that the founding fathers never imagined email and encryption.

 

The founding fathers did however imagine overarching government.

 

It's been pointed out that the US already has avenues to do what it wants. It simply informs the appropriate authorities in Ireland and asks for cooperation. There are existing treaties and procedures to accomplish this. What the DOJ is doing instead is trying to establish a dangerous precedent. A crack in the wall that they can possibly widen later.

 

A notable list of tech companies is fighting this because they know that especially after the Snowden revelations, the world is already skittish about US tech. In the narrow search to make their own jobs easier, certain agencies could turn the current skittishness into complete distrust of American tech, with unknown but probably unpleasant results.

Simplistic.

 

You are being naive. Do you really think that the state doesn't itercept mail regardless of  probable cause?

 

The UK locked up people suspected of being involved with the Irish Republican Army without trial. Think of Guatanamo in the US.

Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely ...