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wyzx01

It's good enough if 3.0 goes with DX12

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If you're running an AMD video card, sure. With an nVidia card... not so much.

 

However, there really isn't a chance of seeing DX12 support for quite a while.

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Apart from the fact DX12 won't happen anytime soon, the gain in performance in one game doesn't mean you will see the same kind of gain in another game. And certainly not in a sim like P3D which is nothing like any game out there.

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This is what n4gix posted, seems make sense because he's a moderator.

 

 

If I may inject a few salient points.

 

  1. I am one of many v3.0 beta testers.
  2. Rob is quite correct to be "excited."
  3. JV views v3.0 through his own particular filters, and is quite likely to not be focused on anything not related to scenery and folder/file management and how it impacts his company's products.
  4. v3.0 is not 64bit

As for DX12, please everyone keep in mind that this would require a complete revamping of the minimum requirements for Prepar3D:

  1. OS must be Win10
  2. Video card must support DX12
  3. Video drivers must support DX12

Item #1 is the major sticking point for the next few years at least.

 

 

 

If you're running an AMD video card, sure. With an nVidia card... not so much.

However, there really isn't a chance of seeing DX12 support for quite a while.

 

I got AMD and Nvidia both. Nvidia said they have a problem about display driver, Ashes uses a DX12 feature that NV hasn't fully supported, that sounds like a joke, but maybe true, guess NV will take over of it. Let's just regard P3DV3 has DX12, in my view, V3 will not use that much features in DX12. AMD just said that there's no "fully support" of DX12, both developers and chip designer take useful features from it but not all of them.

 

 

 

Apart from the fact DX12 won't happen anytime soon, the gain in performance in one game doesn't mean you will see the same kind of gain in another game. And certainly not in a sim like P3D which is nothing like any game out there.

 

I do know what you mean. That's why I post Ashes demo, not other DX12 benchmark. Ashes and P3D have a same property, they both require huge amount drawcalls.

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It's humorous how other members say nope, DX-12 not going to happen in 3.0.

 

Just curious, are you guys Lockheed employees?...  

Or maybe you have super secret cameras set up in their offices?...  

Or perhaps a backdoor to their servers?...

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It's humorous how other members say nope, DX-12 not going to happen in 3.0.

 

Just curious, are you guys Lockheed employees?...  

Or maybe you have super secret cameras set up in their offices?...  

Or perhaps a backdoor to their servers?...

 

Er... seriously...? Read the post above your own in which a (well respected) beta testers is quoted saying P3D will not have DX12. 

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Ok... let's just look at some simple logic:

 

1 - DirectX 12 requires Windows 10 and a DirectX 12 ready graphics card.

2 - Given the requirements of item 1... no current training systems could use DX12-based Prepar3D. Any hardware changes requires recertification.

3 - L-M would profit best by getting all current systems upgraded to the latest version.

 

DirectX 12 isn't coming with v3.

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Only about 5% of Windows users have installed Windows 10. Pretty small user base to implement DX12 for.. 

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If DX12 theoretically was to make it into V4 or V5, what significant improvements are possible with P3D which some seem to be hellbent on wanting?

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I am wondering if the change from 32 to 64 bit isn't limited somehow by the licensing terms between Microsoft and Lockheed Martin? 

 

-Jim

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Ok... let's just look at some simple logic:

 

1 - DirectX 12 requires Windows 10 and a DirectX 12 ready graphics card.

2 - Given the requirements of item 1... no current training systems could use DX12-based Prepar3D. Any hardware changes requires recertification.

3 - L-M would profit best by getting all current systems upgraded to the latest version.

 

DirectX 12 isn't coming with v3.

 

Well, now, obviously DX12 support doesn't have to mean you HAVE to have a DX12 compatible system. FSX supported DX10 after one of its patches but you could still run it in DX9 (as most users did). It's quite common for games/sims to support various DX-version without making one or all of them mandatory. So LM could theoretically implement DX12 for those who DO have the right hard- and software and who would want to use it. Those who don't can still use the current DX-version.

 

Having said that, I think it will mostly be the er... home simmers that would like this option and since they aren't LM's priority, DX12 support, as an option or not, won't be coming too soon. UNLESS some features (like using more than one GPU) is very easy to implement.

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It's humorous how other members say nope, DX-12 not going to happen in 3.0.



Just curious, are you guys Lockheed employees?...

Or maybe you have super secret cameras set up in their offices?...

Or perhaps a backdoor to their servers?...

 

I think all of that juice has gone to your head.

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It's humorous how other members say nope, DX-12 not going to happen in 3.0.

 

Just curious, are you guys Lockheed employees?...  

Or maybe you have super secret cameras set up in their offices?...  

Or perhaps a backdoor to their servers?...

 

I think there's no one could be as professional as a moderator/ beta tester. So I just take what he said as a truth. Maybe he just made a joke, or he can come here and say " yes, I'm joking", and we stop this topic, right?

 

 

 

Ok... let's just look at some simple logic:

 

1 - DirectX 12 requires Windows 10 and a DirectX 12 ready graphics card.

2 - Given the requirements of item 1... no current training systems could use DX12-based Prepar3D. Any hardware changes requires recertification.

3 - L-M would profit best by getting all current systems upgraded to the latest version.

 

DirectX 12 isn't coming with v3.

 

Good thinking with some mistakes.

1-Absolutely, DX12 only comes with Win10 and DX12 capable Video Card. But that not means you have to buy a new card like GTX980Ti (Maxwell 2.0), or a R9 380 (GCN 1.2). Almost ALL THESE current DX11 capable cards are capable with DX12 except HD6000, HD5000 and intel 3rd ones.

2-just as J Van E said, P3D has various DX version capability. My friend had a GT240 which could only capable with DX10, but he could also use P3D 2.5, but run in DX9. So, you know, the OS is not that serious, and P3DV3 mostly will also remain DX11 support for old systems.

 

 

Having said that, I think it will mostly be the er... home simmers that would like this option and since they aren't LM's priority, DX12 support, as an option or not, won't be coming too soon. UNLESS some features (like using more than one GPU) is very easy to implement.

 

Er...right, home simmers are not LM's priority, never will be. But look at the route map from P3DV1 (DX10), P3DV2 (DX11), and possible P3DV3 with DX12. Each version update came with DX version update. Maybe V3 will not initially support DX12, but it nearly 100% will in the near 3.1, 3.2 etc. Personally, I think LM is quite aggresive in obtaining performance for their simulator.

 

Maybe p3D V3.5 ?

 

Maybe, we all make speculations.

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Maybe, we all make speculations.

 

Oh No!!!  Don't spoil the thread .....  Where would we all be without a healthy dose of speculation?  Trolling Yahoo or Google [other Search Engines are available], for our daily 'fix'?  Give me THIS lunacy every time! At least we are all in one place! :P

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Well, now, obviously DX12 support doesn't have to mean you HAVE to have a DX12 compatible system. FSX supported DX10 after one of its patches but you could still run it in DX9 (as most users did).

 

Unless you have Windows 10 you won't get DirecttX 12.

 

FSX didn't run in Directx 10. It offered only a limited preview.

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Unless you have Windows 10 you won't get DirecttX 12.

 

FSX didn't run in Directx 10. It offered only a limited preview.

Er... Yes...? I know DX12 requires W10 and that FSX DX10 was limited but that's not the point. The point is that DX12 support can be given as an option. Adding DX12 support doesn't have to mean the minimum requirements will have to be changed in order to run P3D (using current DX mode). Everyone who does not have a DX12 compatible system can still use P3D in its current DX mode. This isn't something odd or new: it has been done a lot like this in the past.

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Just curious, are you guys Lockheed employees?...  

Or maybe you have super secret cameras set up in their offices?...  

Or perhaps a backdoor to their servers?...

 

That is Top Secret compartmentalised information that I could not possibly divulge online in an open forum. Please provide me with your NSA badge number and the name of your supervisor, and I will look into the possibility of getting a judge to provide you with a 100% blacked out copy of the relevant support documents.

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The point is that DX12 support can be given as an option.

 

DirectX 12 is an integral part of Windows 10. How will Lockheed Martin give it as an option?

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DirectX 12 is an integral part of Windows 10. How will Lockheed Martin give it as an option?

The same way as tons of game developers has given a similar option to gamers, as an option for those who do have the right hardware and software. LM can implement DX12 support and everyone who has Windows 10 and the right hardware will be able to use that option. Everyone else will keep on using DX 11. It's been done in the past with DX 8, 9, 10 so I don't see what's the problem here....?

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DirectX 12 is an integral part of Windows 10. How will Lockheed Martin give it as an option?

Making accurate and realistic statements is no longer allowed in FS fora.

Don't try to inject truth into users heads, just play along until they realize that DirectX 12 is an MS offering in W10, NOT LM. :wink: :Party:

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This thread could fold nicely in the P3D V3 speculation thread. 

 

Now my two cents/pence/pfennig...  unless most of their corporate customers have upgraded all the flight sim computers with the DirectX 12 graphics cards, LM will not implement DirectX12.  LM is first and foremost a business-to-business enterprise -- not a consumer gaming company.  Adding the Win10 requirement guarantees that it won't happen since IT departments are very conservative about upgrading to bleeding edge operating systems. 

 

Wishful thinking won't change that corporate reality.

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The same way as tons of game developers has given a similar option to gamers, as an option for those who do have the right hardware and software. LM can implement DX12 support and everyone who has Windows 10 and the right hardware will be able to use that option. Everyone else will keep on using DX 11. It's been done in the past with DX 8, 9, 10 so I don't see what's the problem here....?

That would require they implement a completely separate application. DX12 is radically different from prior DX versions in how one goes about one's graphic business. I don't think you could convince L-M there's a value in going that route at this time.

 

I also don't think you're being realistic in your expectations regarding DX12 implementation. The vast majority of L-M training systems I am aware of use older OS versions (Win7) and will not be upgrading, at all. So there's more incentive of not supporting DX12 than there is to support DX12. If the majority of your customer base isn't going to move to Win10 (and I can assure you that is an issue)... then changing system requirements isn't a good path.

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Oh No!!!  Don't spoil the thread .....  Where would we all be without a healthy dose of speculation?  Trolling Yahoo or Google [other Search Engines are available], for our daily 'fix'?  Give me THIS lunacy every time! At least we are all in one place! :P

 

Er...I don't get the point, I'm not english native, so I probably miss some. This thread is somewhat a speculation thread if somebody think so. I treat it as what DX12 will give us thread.

 

 

 

DirectX 12 is an integral part of Windows 10. How will Lockheed Martin give it as an option?

 

I don't know how to let you understand even, seems you missed lots of stuff about DX support and DX capable.

 

 

 

That would require they implement a completely separate application. DX12 is radically different from prior DX versions in how one goes about one's graphic business. I don't think you could convince L-M there's a value in going that route at this time.

 

Why separate? Ashes can run in DX11 and DX12, see the video I posted on #1. So, P3D can also run in two or more DX version. Actually, P3DV2 have the ablility to capable DX9 (or DX10 maybe, not sure which version) and DX11.

 

 

 

If the majority of your customer base isn't going to move to Win10 (and I can assure you that is an issue)... then changing system requirements isn't a good path.

 

There's always someone says the new OS system has these or those issuses, and they refuse to upgrade. See people who refuse to upgrade to WinXp when Xp was coming out, and remain using their Win2000. Also Win7, Win8. I don't know what they thinking, for capability? For stablility? But after some years, they have to move on to newer ones. Some people just be that conservative, they refuse to use new technologies, but finally, they have to accept it and refuse newer technologies. Strange people.

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