PRODUCT ALERT Installing 3rd Party Software into Updated Versions of P3D

[Guest]

but you used PMDG as the example and it is already clear that their new installer is NOT V3 compliant as it does not obey L-M's instructions on NOT pervading the core file structure.

O, please, let it go, Louis. No one has to obey LM on this. It is a recommendation and it seems a lot if not most developers will ignore it. So PMDG's installers ARE officially and actually v3 compatible, period, just as the Orbx installers will be, which will also install into the v3 folder. The biggest change in the core file structure has been made by LM itself: various parts are installed completely separate now and can be updated without even touching the other parts. If a developer decides to follow the recommendation, great, but don't wait for everyone to do this and don't treat perfectly fine v3 compatible installers as if they aren't compatible.

[hesynergy 67]

Jim

 

Just so we're clear - L-M EULA has never proscribed retro-compatibility - indeed in V3 they've even improved merging for older FS9-based product. Issues of compatibiity are not, never were, and never will be a problem of Lockheed-Martin licensing.

 

The rules should ONLY be focussed on the bypassing of addon developers EULA and interpretations of proper use.

 

There is, as we are seeing already, quite a pressing need for a compatibility topic that discusses whether a new installer supposedly for V3 is actually compatible. I don't want to pick individual cases, but you used PMDG as the example and it is already clear that their new installer is NOT V3 compliant as it does not obey L-M's instructions on NOT pervading the core file structure.

 

I would say THAT is very necessary - even vital - topic for discussion. I would also say that in a proprietary forum such topics are unlikely to remain on view for long.

+3

[Jim Young 2,356]

Jim

 

Just so we're clear - L-M EULA has never proscribed retro-compatibility - indeed in V3 they've even improved merging for older FS9-based product. Issues of compatibiity are not, never were, and never will be a problem of Lockheed-Martin licensing.

 

The rules should ONLY be focussed on the bypassing of addon developers EULA and interpretations of proper use.

 

There is, as we are seeing already, quite a pressing need for a compatibility topic that discusses whether a new installer supposedly for V3 is actually compatible. I don't want to pick individual cases, but you used PMDG as the example and it is already clear that their new installer is NOT V3 compliant as it does not obey L-M's instructions on NOT pervading the core file structure.

 

I would say THAT is very necessary - even vital - topic for discussion. I would also say that in a proprietary forum such topics are unlikely to remain on view for long.

I am not trying to prohibit any discussions here. I and some moderators put this together as suggestions for installing addons into any updated versions of P3D. I suggested at the end to discuss the P3D.cfg settings and the fps and how good the product is instead of coming here and asking whether a product is compatible or can be installed in P3Dv3. Wait for the installers or go to the developers website and download the installer or get instructions on how to get your addon installed into P3D. We wanted to be careful that no one got into EULA or license agreements between you and the vendor. This topic is all suggestions. We are not trying to add anything to the AVSIM Terms of Service here. We will enforce any violation of the AVSIM Terms of Service and any Lockheed Martin EULA discussions prohibited by another pinned topic here. So far I think most of us have been cooperative and keeping most of the discussions about the P3Dv3 product to how well it is working and some config discussions.

 

If it is okay for the developer of the fs9 based products to place his product into P3Dv3, then there is no problem. Many of the developers of FS9 products have products made for FSX, FSX-SE, and P3Dv2 and 3. They are charging money for these updated programs. The old FS9 related product might work well in P3Dv3 and LM does not have any problems with this. The developer of the FS9 product might have a problem though. He or she spent a lot of money and time and effort to upgrade his old fs9 products to work properly in FSX, FSX-SE, or P3Dv2 or 3. So, if the developer of the FS9 product has no problems with you putting his/her products in P3Dv3, then I see no problems with the discussing this in this forum. I have always thought that what you do in the privacy of your own house is your business. But, coming here and telling the world how to get around buying the developers updated versions of his old fs9 product and installing it into P3Dv3 cannot be allowed. Can it?

 

I realize that back in the good old days of FS2000, FS2002, and earlier, many members were telling everyone how to install the older products into the newer products. Microsoft and commercial developers were even telling them how to do it too. Commercial developers turned a blind eye to it all but then decided to get serious and come up with EULA's and license agreements between you and them to prevent this from happening. This is their product that they developed and spent a lot of time and money to develop it. Now they would like to make some money for all of their hard work. Many commercial developers still turn a blind eye but many, like PMDG, have decided they want to fully enforce their EULA. They have a business to run and I don't want AVSIM Forums to be used by some to circumvent EULAs and install their old products into this new product. So it is dangerous territory when you start discussing how to get around a developer's EULA that was made between you and the vendor instead of purchasing their updated version. Why have EULA's if many, not all, are going to violate their terms?

 

I realize there are many FS9 products that have no EULA's and those products can be discussed here to let our members know how you got the product to work in P3Dv3. There are FS9 products that were never ever updated and those can be discussed here. But please be careful with those products with EULA's.

 

I hope you understand AVSIM's position. You should also be aware that P3Dv3 may crash or freeze because you installed old fs9 or fsx products. If you get a crash or freeze, you should not expect LM to provide support for P3dv3 and all of your addons. You do it at your own risk. If you do have a crash or freeze, the old products would be the first ones I would suspect. P3Dv3 runs perfectly without any addons but when you start installing these addons and problems occur, I don't think you should blame LM for your problems. My two-cents.

 

Best regards,

[GSalden 4,657]

There are 3rd party developers that take their time , read months, to make their addon installers P3Dv3 compatible. ...

 

Imho if there are ways to make an addon compatible now I really would like to know and not wait for months.

 

Eg : I use the Ifly CBE in P3Dv2. Updated installers for the regular P3Dv2 Ifly won't be released for quiet a while.

The CBE , working in P3Dv2 won't be updated at all.

 

So if someone is succeeding in getting it to work I really would like to know.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[louisdecoolste 12]

OK, then accept the fact that:

 

1: You will be committing to a full reinstall when the modules are updated.

2: The timescales mean any 60-day refund on V3 is going to be meaningless. They are very strict on the 60-day limit, quite rightly IMHO.

3: The rush to simply allow installation may preclude or prevent optimisation to suit the new platform. 

4: You may be breaching the addon EULA. 

 

Then install away, it's your sim and you can do what you want - except come to this forum for assistance when something doesn't work, or tell anyone else when it does !

 

Some might feel that last bit is the real deal-breaker. I can't see this policy ending well, Gerard. But hey, at least you will get practised in re-installation - probably a lot more if  L-M use the opportunity to create more point updates.

[birdmanmike 6]

Just not so - it's the 3rd party product would need the re-install - as it has been with 2.5, where the P3D update reverted the bits that the 3PD had modded.  And anyway, even if,  my install of P3D took just about 5 minutes.  So if you backed up the install files its no problem.  I back up all  installers, the FS and the 3PD stuff, including OrbX.

 

Ever get the feeling you're the only one marching in step?

[hesynergy 67]

351 Gb of scenery ?

 

Luckely I am not the only one with a lot of scenery :

- 513 SSD --> 455 Gb scenery

- 256 SSD --> 215 Gb scenery

- 128 SSD --> P3D + 30 Gb scenery

That is 702 GB Uncompressed... And that is over three drives, 2 of which are SSD…

 

The FSCubed author is going to be working with me as to how to restore into the 3.0 environment.

 

Regards,

 

Chas

[vgbaron 3,620]

Chas - There is already a V3 version available. The instructions say to snapshot using the V2.5 version and restore using the V3.

 

Haven't tested it.

 

@gerard - the problem comes when the dev decides the will charge for the new installer and we have been telling users how to port it over free of charge.

 

Unfortunately not everything is black or white.

 

Vic

[WarpD 824]

The problem is people think that their license applies to whatever sim they want to apply it to. Ask. If you get no response, assume no... only an actual yes from said developer means the license applies to whatever sim.

[hesynergy 67]

My problem was, the author indicated that FSCubed for P3Dv3.0, restored all files from the 2.5 backup into the native home directory of P3D ...And that presented real problems for me because I don't have the Drive space on Drive I:

 

... I will quote from the my convos with the author below;

-----------

Baher,

 

Greetings. I have now purchased and downloaded P3d, and I started asking myself, what am I going to do with the files that are already in place, and have not moved and the files that are going into the new P 3-D?

 

In other words I have scenery files on drive L:, I:,N:. See the enclosed Scenery.cfg text file.

 

Drive I: is the 250GB home drive of P3DV2.on my 500GB SSD .The other 250GB Is drive L: holding scenery. L: does not/should not move. The same goes for the scenery files on Drive N:.

 

When I upgrade to P3D V3, I am going to take the existing P3D v2.5 folder from Drive I:, and MOVE it to an archive folder on another drive, thus freeing up space for the P3D V3 install and its files on Drive I:.

 

P3D V3 will then be installed in the space left by P3D v2.5 on Drive I: . Therefore, the ONLY Scenery FILES that will need restoring are those that used to reside on Drive I:.

 

...NOT on drive L: or Drive N:, thus the need for selected/selective backup and restore. Just how do I do that? I see nothing in the manual about a selective or partial restore.

 

I am sure you have thoroughly tested FSCubed for P3Dv3.0, but put yourself in my shoes.

 

I already have functioning scenery files already in place on L: and N:

 

Why would I over-write them with an untested product?

 

Thanks,and have a wonderful day!

 

Chas

(iPD)

 

---

On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:25 PM, Baher Abouelfittouh <baher.hosni@simdesigngroup.com> wrote:

 

If you carefully read the featured for FSCubed, you will find that it collects all the scenery from wherever it is on your PC. That means, it will not overwrite anything. FSCubed will restore all the scenery within your sim's folder. That means that the drive containing your new sim needs to be big enough to accommodate the totality of your scenery.

 

Hope that helps

 

I am open for more help and support at any time

 

------

I can't afford a Terrebyte size SSD...SELECTIVE RESTORE is the only acceptable answer for me....ahhhh welllll.

 

Thanks,and have a wonderful day!

 

Chas

(iPD)

----

On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Baher Abouelfittouh <baher.hosni@simdesigngroup.com> wrote:

 

Let me make you feel better about this undertaking. If you allow me a few days, I can show some gratitude for the healing vibes by helping you manually do the migration!

 

What say you?

-----

"Sounds wonderful!

 

Waiting with baited breath!

 

Thanks,and have a wonderful day!

 

Chas

(iPD)

[louisdecoolste 12]

Just not so - it's the 3rd party product would need the re-install - as it has been with 2.5, where the P3D update reverted the bits that the 3PD had modded.  And anyway, even if,  my install of P3D took just about 5 minutes.  So if you backed up the install files its no problem.  I back up all  installers, the FS and the 3PD stuff, including OrbX.

 

Ever get the feeling you're the only one marching in step?

 

You cannot say that. A perfect example is software that overwrites a default file, or merges their files into a default folder. YOU cannot say that an uninstall of that addon product will revert the folder to its original incarnation, or return all the .xml and .dll and .cfg files to their pre-installation version. ORBX can say that, and they say that their uninstaller doesn't.

 

So that's one example, right there.For all WE know, if the updated client installer doesn't `see` original files, it may shut down and refuse to complete. 

 

We just cannot say.

 

THAT'S the risk - because the only solution then is a full reinstall, just like it was in v2.x. And that means not just one third party product but ALL of them.

 

It's never taken long to reinstall vanilla P3D. You've missed the point completely. It's about having to reinstall the everything else.

 

The purpose of the unmodified core file instruction is precisely to allow everything else to remain in situ. Whether that means files added to the core structure (e.g. additional texture files added to the main Texture folder by FTX) are going to be left alone is still subject to review and we wont know until the first module update.

 

But as the piper here, Lockheed Martin call the tune.

 

Ever get the feeling that you marching to the tune of a slower drum ?

[birdmanmike 6]

On second thoughts I've just edited out a post.  It's just not worth it.

Fortunately I've got a life.

 

Have a nice day . . .

[WarpD 824]

Well, the intent of this thread has been completely bypassed.

 

I now see posts where people simply say "Wanna know how I got around the EULA? PM me!" Yes, I'm paraphrasing... but if the installer does NOT directly install with v3... you shouldn't be installing!

[aeronauta 67]

Louis I am with you 100%, I tried to install A2A  P3D V3 version of their AC , new download ...used the SDK to create all the reauired folders and Config entries , and of course it does not work...the SW has hard coded paths and is impossible to install in any other directory but the default P3D V3, I even asked "Why provide the option of changing the install folder???   ...guess what ...ususal reaponse from the Fan Club..I stay put with ORBX ...I dont want to be banned...

 

Jorge