What Is Up With This Community?

[JYW 2,980]

The Flysimware Support Forum is a commercial forum moderated by the developer.  It can sometimes get pretty brutal in commercial forums hosted here at AVSIM.  AVSIM does not moderate these forums except for extreme circumstances, like individuals using the forum to bust EULAs and pirating.  If you see a problem, please send a PM to the Moderator for those forums located in the bottom right of each forum.

 

Best regards,

 

Ah ok, I understand. Thanks for clarifying that Jim.

[ClearedtoLand 149]

Jim,

 

You understood my comment just right, and I think we share the same sentiment about some people's behaviour on the forum. I think that we sometimes go too far in trying to please people who demand that everyone express themselves in a way they deem acceptable, yet we don't actually stop to ask ourselves whether those demands are reasonable. Personally, I think those demands are unreasonable, and I think people deserve to be treated better than that. The problem here is not that everyone does not speak or behave in the same manner, the problem is the expectation that everyone should speak or behave in the same manner or be treated with contempt or as if they are stupid. There is an error in reasoning there that does not justify an attitude of being, as you call it, holier than thou. And unfortunately, they get away with it.

 

I do find it reassuring though that the overwhelming majority of users are not seen to be behaving in this way. But if I may ask, how would you suggest the issue be addressed?

[HiFlyer 9,358]

On top of that, you get "cronyism", where by a responder may make their statements, and immediately get backup up by X amount of others just because they know each other.  None of that, really helps the situation. 

 

-Jim

 

To be honest, because the people who have a tendency to come off like that have been around so long, forum denizens generally know who they are, and are aware going in that some of their posts should be surrounded by big orange hazard cones! 

 

"Don't worry, that's just old faithful! Blows off like that every once and awhile, I reckon" Some say.

 

After a while, we know to hastily detour around the obstacle, or, depending on our mood, get some popcorn and watch the occasional pile up from a distance. Sometimes, if we get into a collision ourselves despite attempting to drive cautiously, we may find ourselves in a confrontation before the police... ahem.... mods, arrive. Try to stay calm and post carefully.

 

It's the same as life, I guess. Avoid cliques and certain dangerous neighborhoods known for muggings, avoid unnecessary conflicts, and keep the police, fire and ambulance on speed-dial.

 

You can also attempt the occasional citizen's arrest if you feel up to it, but be aware that can be dangerous, and usually not recommended.  :wink:

[ANAMIV 21]

"Cognitive Science"/"The essential philosophy of meaningful communication to encourage and stimulate without causing offence" et al.....

My last few months of employment was taken up writing procedures for Quality

Assurance" procedures. I was one of a team  and it was stressed we made extensive use of "the blue pen". i.e: be direct and concise!!!

 

Now can we get back to the prime purpose of wonderful AVSIM.

[ClearedtoLand 149]

"Cognitive Science"/"The essential philosophy of meaningful communication to encourage and stimulate without causing offence" et al.....

My last few months of employment was taken up writing procedures for Quality

Assurance" procedures. I was one of a team and it was stressed we made extensive use of "the blue pen". i.e: be direct and concise!!!

 

Now can we get back to the prime purpose of wonderful AVSIM.

You've just performed what we call in the trade a mental short cut, it's the emotion derived from getting annoyed at my lengthy posts (I grant you that bit). The parts of your mind that react emotionally operate faster than the parts of your mind that perform analytic functions and the analytic parts can't actually resume their functions until your emotions have run their course, and the emotional parts of your brain don't think, it's known as the Dual Processing Theory of Mind (or Cognition). What it says, in a nutshell, is that for as long as you are in an emotional state, you are not thinking rationally.

 

So from everything I wrote, all that you took out of it was that it is not concise. Ok, but what about the bit where I wrote that the rational mind shuts down when people get emotional? It would seem to be relevant here, because you don't need cognitive science to tell you that people behave in silly ways when they get angry. You do need cognitive science, though, to understand why, because that also tells you what your best course of action is for dealing with it (nip it in the bud before it has a chance to take off).

 

So what does all of this have to do with wonderful AVSIM? AVSIM, among other things, is a source of support, but that function is undermined by some people who let their emotions dictate their reactions, which in turn ruins it for other users, thus making it not so much a source of support, but some people's personal podium for self aggrandisement. And that brings us to this topic. And that brings me to my contributions. Cognitive psychology shows that people are very bad at understanding how their minds work, it also shows that, depending on the individual, understanding how ones mind functions can help one to develop better behaviour, to be less emotional and more rational. AVSIM certainly would not suffer from people adopting a more rational approach. The content of my posts, well, the scientific bits, are more relevant than you acknowledge.

 

Did I offend you in any other manner or have I covered everything?

[Jimm 437]

I meant no offense by my response.  I just thought that we all could be satisfied with what Rob mentioned back in his previous post.  Basically, "think before you speak", which I believe a lot of people can be guilty of.

 

-Jim

[Holdit 551]

 ( because they have a few thousand posts under their belt -) 

 

 

That's when I tend to wonder how much actual flying they can be doing.

 

:smile:

[ClearedtoLand 149]

I meant no offense by my response. I just thought that we all could be satisfied with what Rob mentioned back in his previous post. Basically, "think before you speak", which I believe a lot of people can be guilty of.

 

-Jim

Hey Jim, that wasn't in response to what you said. It's in response to a post from a different user. I think your comments on the subject were some of the better articulated views on the subject.

[Holdit 551]

Too often, a hostile reply is not down to someone not having taken the time to search or phrase a question with sufficient detail, but down to the respondent not bothering to think through the possibilities that may be preventing the person who asked the question from living up to the required standards.

 

I'd add something to what you've (correctly) said there.  I believe it's often down to the responder lacking sufficient maturity/wisdom to ignore the topic and move on, assuming a helpful response is out of the question. In my unkindest moments I put it down to a psychological need to prove superiority that reflects much worse on the responder that on the original questioner.

 

As others have said, you see this kind of nonsense all over the place. I remember seeing it a lot in the forums of a certain WW2 3D wargame developer*. I swear, if I had a penny for every post along the lines of "...we get grumpy because we are tired of answering the same question about...blah blah..."   Well dude, nobody is forcing you, especially since you obviously hate it so much. This comes not from the developers mind you, but from other players. Heads up to forum denizens, forum participation isn't a job (mods excepted, heheh), you won't face the sack or get a bad appraisal for not answering a question. See a question accompanied by an annoying attitude or lack of accompanying information? Limit yourself to two choices: either respond as helpfully as possible or move along. Someone else will eventually come up with an appropriate response. You are not indispensable. If forum posts tick you off, go and do something else like...oh... play the game under discussion maybe?

 

OK that turned int a bit of a rant. But that kind of behavior really makes my blood boil, and I usually don't respond. This thread has been a bit cathartic. Thanks, OP.

 

 

(*The big one there was "do a search". It was alomost like a kind of forum mafia, where you made your bones by delivering the phrase to some newbie. I remember one question even being responded to by one of the old sweats with the spectacularly unhelpful. "D.A.S". That was the whole response, I'm not making it up. If being a muppet was an olympic sport, that would have been a gold medal effort...)

To be perfectly honest with you, I have no idea if I am understanding what you are saying.  This is not to say you are wrong in the way you are interpreting the statements made.

 

I believe it's all about clarity, for both the person posing the question as well as the responder, but it's the way the responders come off with, pardon the expression, a "holier than thou" attitude, which brings me back to my initial posting.  There are some that you can get a feeling from them that since they have been with AVSIM for X amount of years, or flaunt their impressive careers in the aviation industry or 

 

To be fair, (anecdotal evidence alert!) any of the real pilots I've noticed that post online tend to be pretty measured, helpful and informative in their postings. Maybe they don't feel they've anything to prove...

[n4gix 4,947]

...it was stressed we made extensive use of "the blue pen". i.e: be direct and concise!!!

In years gone by, I tended to be precisely that; direct and concise. I got roasted almost daily being accused unfairly of being terse to the point of (perceived) rudeness.

 

Apparently many fellow simmers expect a certain amount of verbosity and become upset when one rations one's words too much.

 

Now having said that, may I ask everyone to please not quote an entire post when replying. Everyone can use the wonderful key labeled "Delete" to trim the fat off their quoted material.

 

Thanks ever so much in advance! :Big Grin:

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

i agree with this 100%. I was recently accused on being a liar, and usurper, and a fraud because I said I got an OOM error in P3D and couldnt produce a video showing it. Its just the worst is assumed and thus the worst is brought out of so many people here. Whats worse is that some Mods either partake or refuse to acknowledge it when they see is as many of them have their own bias as well. I guess its just part of being human, but I though that a community of so many mature enthusiasts would conduct themselves better than this. It could just be to Mir's point that its not as many as it sounds like. But a few very "loud" voices. 

[Poppet 707]

Hey TheFlightSimGuy you were my completion winner dude:). Nobody was accusing you of being a liar. They were just trying to get you to recreate the problem you were having for testing reasons and to help you. You seem like a cool guy hope you got sorted:)

[pracines 823]

It's all about typing exactly what you would say face to face to anybody. Similar to liquid courage, hiding behind the internet makes most people (moderators and website owners included) more brave than they are or should be, and they make comments that they would never say face to face. 

[HiFlyer 9,358]

I've wondered fairly often how some of these types of people behave in real life.....

 

To be fair though, I don't see as many incidents as I once did, and some people seem a bit more circumspect than they might once have been. I sometimes muse on whether that's because the mods are working behind the scenes, or whether I'm just better at remembering I'm an adult, and ignoring provocation.

[ClearedtoLand 149]

In years gone by, I tended to be precisely that; direct and concise. I got roasted almost daily being accused unfairly of being terse to the point of (perceived) rudeness.

 

Apparently many fellow simmers expect a certain amount of verbosity and become upset when one rations one's words too much.

 

Now having said that, may I ask everyone to please not quote an entire post when replying. Everyone can use the wonderful key labeled "Delete" to trim the fat off their quoted material.

And there you have a perfect summary of the problem. 20% of Americans think they are in the top 1% income bracket. They can't all be right, 95% of them are wrong and would discover that if they could be bothered to have a think about it. Similarly, nobody goes through life thinking the way they are is the wrong way of being, but hell, they're going to be the wrong way in any case. Whenever someone goes mad at someone else for doing something in a way that differs from their preferred way of doing things, you are essentially saying to that person, the way you behave is the wrong way. It may well be, some ways are better than others, but better does not mean right, nor does it mean the only way.

 

What you describe is such a familiar pattern of human thought that it can almost serve as a template, not thinking through all the different options for behaviour and realising that, as in almost all aspects of life, preference is subjective and not universal. And here is the problem with it, a subjective preference is based not on a logical analysis of all available options, and a careful weighing up of pros and cons, but almost entirely on personality, and one does not choose ones personality, so one did not choose to be the right way, one came to believe that being the way one is, is the right way of being because that is the way one is. Circular logic in so far as one can call it logic.

 

This topic, and all the ones similar to it result from frustration with people who think that their behaviour and thinking is superior to that of others and that they are thus entitled to treat others badly. Of course, in so doing, they actually prove just how similar their thinking is to those they deem inferior to them. But I suspect very much that most people already, quietly, know this.