Prepar3D v3.x Compatibility

[Patriot3810 182]

i am most curious about pmdg and aerosoft airbus, i know orbx could be awhile, another i wonder is navigraph

[Poppet 703]

Good stuff ED, great idea,  i will be following this one 

[jjaycee1 0]

Very interesting and something I had been hoping would be possible, regarding scenery addons being outside of the P3D folder.

In theory then, if one has P3D v2.5 on a seperate SSD and then installed v3 onto another SSD, could you not take the current v2.5 scenery cfg ( Terrain cfg?) and place it into v3, ensuring the "entries" in the cfg are showing the correct path, and all your v2.5 scenery should be available in v3?

This is just a theory as i would not wish to break any EULA and am quite willing to wait for v3 installers.

My question though is what will the new v3 installers do, as they have traditionally sought the P3D folder in order to install directly into it. Now the addons will not go into P3D v3 but sit outside of the folder in either the same drive or a separate drive. Will they now just check for which drive you want to install the addons to and only adjust the Scenery cfg accordingly?

[louisdecoolste 12]

Well it's been out for a few hours now and we already have updated installs for GEXP3D and ASN.

 

The single biggest complaint that I have seen in these forums during updates is - "I don't want to have to reinstall all my add-ons again - I'll pass on this update, etc".

 

LM is attempting to introduce a structure where, if followed by developers, will result in NOT having to reinstall all add-ons each time there is an update. There will be a transition period where it will be a PITA to get things squared away but WE will benefit in the long run.

 

Although they do not publicly comment much, it should be apparent to anyone paying attention that LM "does" listen to our complaints.

 

Vic

 

 

Only if all aftermarket and addon developers adhere to a common standard, otherwise it's going to lead to a mess of addon file that might keep L-M update installers happy but will crush hard drives and fill SSD's with repeated solus folders. Addon Scenery folder deletion in 2.5 is now seen as an indicator of the issues to come.

 

One of the benefits of utilising the defined folder structure is that addons had to adhere to that structure, or could at least take beneft from it by utilising common files knowing where they were to be found. But as LM has now absconded from the common file party taking its bat and ball, there is going to be one heck of a mess with co-location issues, duplicated locations, repeated textures, and a whole other heap of problems when one addon doesn't play well with another.

 

A couple of quick examples:

 

1: Mesh. Highest res mesh automatically used in the sim. You install an addon airport that has its own mesh and activate it in its own scenery folder. Then another developer comes along and installs a higher res mesh in its personalised folder. Your original scenery now has dips and plateau, but you have no way of knowing what's causing it. You temporarily disable it to perform a troubleshoot, but that darn mesh is still present. Unless you know which addon scenery overrides your choice of mesh, how are you even going to find it?

 

2: So you can't insert your aircraft into SimObjects/Aircraft in the sim, instead you make an external folder called `addon aircraft` and install there. Great, but the next addon uses `Addon Hangar`, another mis-spells `Hanger`, and yet another uses `Aircrafts`. Multiple folders for a common objective, files across multiple folders with no cross-commonality or mutual calls, so every aircraft now needs to have a complete suite of sounds, textures, effects, as you can't rely on a common draw call as there is no common drawcall folder or rule.

Massive duplication. Massive and scattered files all over the drive. Utter bloody mess.

 

What L-M should have done, instead of just abrogating their responsibility to ease their own little updates, is consider the impact on the aftermarket - on which they draw so much of their PR as a `platform` provider. And actually provide the addon tools that represents the common core for all addons, but which ioslate and protect the core files that might be updated in future. Developers then have a strict set  of `hooks` for their installers to abide by. 

But that would require some common set of standards that would suit almost no-one in the aftermarket sector - everyone has their own commercial `game` to play and that often includes messing up someone elses.

 

This is a disaster, waiting to happen. You don't give the market free will. You set the parameters to control the free will.

[warbirds 555]

Farther and farther from FX we go. So glad I got X-Plane where you install by just putting the downloaded folder in it's place in the X-Plane folder. So I was really geared up for this new PD3 but the more I read about the more I am happy with my X-Plane and my FSX SE.

[twharrell 38]

Out of curiosity, for those that have installed the Flightbeam and FSDT sceneries (which I hear now have v3 installers), where are these sceneries placed if not in the core P3D folder?

[jjaycee1 0]

Regarding my post earlier i see on the ORBX forum that in answer to a question regarding SSD space:

"I had v2 away from the operating system on it's own 750gb SSD. When installing some addons they also needed to go into the main Prepar3d folder.(ORBX addons a good example)

I have seen that EVERYTHING 3rd party now needs to be installed away from the main Prepar3d folder."

The response from ORBX was:

 

"No, that is not correct.

Only some of the configuration files have moved away from the main folders.

Orbx, 3rd Party Aircraft, Scenery, AI, etc all still install to the Prepar3d directory like P3D v1/2 and MSFS."

So now I am confused !!

[razalom 19]

Out of curiosity, for those that have installed the Flightbeam and FSDT sceneries (which I hear now have v3 installers), where are these sceneries placed if not in the core P3D folder?

Just installed them and checked and they are in the P3D Default folder

[jjaycee1 0]

Just installed them and checked and they are in the P3D Default folder

So they do not go outside of P3D as has been reported. I assume therefore that certain addons must go into P3D direct and "others" do not have too. Same as before, as i have many scenery addons like UK2000 airfields which I have outside of P3D on a separate SSD. Did that by installing into P3D then moving them to the other SSD and changing the path in the scenery cfg.

[Christopher Low 5,341]

I do like the decision to move all addons and files outside of the core sim. That makes a lot of sense to me, since future updates can then modify the core sim without affecting the addon packages (and presumably avoiding complete reinstalls). I just want to make sure that this can be done with all of my addons, and that is why I am delaying purchase and installation of P3D v3 until I have more data from the guinea pigs :smile:

[WarpD 824]

From the Learning Center for Prepar3D v3 under "Prepar3D SDK - Add-ons - Add-ons Overview":

 

Building and Packaging the Add-on

When building and packaging an add-on for Prepar3D into a distributable form, it is highly recommended that the Add-on Instructions for Developers article is followed. This gives recommendations on the folder structure, installation path, and toolset options that should be used. In the past, add-on developers have overwritten core Prepar3D files or installed their content alongside the Prepar3D installation directory. This should no longer be the case and the Add-on Configuration System should be used.

Sorry, ORBX is incorrect in their statement.

[birdmanmike 6]

I've had UK2000, ES, Horizon etc, add-on mesh, etc. etc always was installed on separate drive in first place - easy to use in FSX and P3D 1.x then 2.x.       Addon Scenery has been on separate folder/drive since that changed.  The scenery.cfg still in ProgramData copied and edited where necessary and BTW SceneryConfigEditor works it seems.  Only FTX doesn't give option on install and they're doing new installers anyway

 

All the aircraft are in SimObjects/airplanes, folders and contents the same. Effects are in effects, sound in sound. LM said intention to have backward compatibility where possible, so seem some contradictions

 

I'm not sure where the problem is.  Patches and fixes shouldn't overwrite non-P3D base folders/files even if under P3D folder structure, so it would only be if client or scenery .msi installer actually removed non-P3D folders/files under the  P3D structure.  Simply backing up stuff that isn't in these "new" folder structures whenever they arrive.  Installers just need the v3 added and registry check.

 

your mileage may vary and obviously may change in future, but for now . . .

 

edit: assuming the add-on doesn't modify core files as Ed says.  Autogen compatibility and the like come to mind OrbX  does/has done that

 

doesn't seem all thought through to me - and I've gone through the add-on configuration and management - this isn't new, and LM saying use UAC and the SDK, yet saying install an run with admin rights - and note that as above it says recommended or highly recommended, not you'll be lined up against a wall and shot.  It would seem it's be aware of who's or what you install, buyer beware and at your own risk  . . .

[WarpD 824]

There's no reason to place addon aircraft in the core Prepar3D folders, nor the gauges, nor the effects, nor the sound.

 

Why would L-M want developers to stay OUT of the core sim folders? So that if they change the folder layout in future releases it will have zero impact on an addon.

 

There is no longer a valid reason for addons to install into the core folders. L-M wants it to stop and developers (like myself) need to adapt.

[ErichB 3,638]

There is no longer a valid reason for addons to install into the core folders. L-M wants it to stop and developers (like myself) need to adapt.

 

That seems to make perfect sense and will reap benefits in the longer term for everyone I'd have thought.

[geedub 15]

Ed's comments highlight a glaring need within a community such us ours for somebody qualified and of a generous disposition to spell out the implications of profound and forward-looking changes to our sim. We want to be able to plan and manage our limited drive-space resources and our library of add-ons - in which many have made a sizeable investment. Clearly it falls to the developers to design the needed installers that respect the SDK, but I'm talking a layman's guide in non-technical language and non-patronising style that fosters the understanding and cameraderie that should underpin a forum; a bunch of serious hobbyists. ORBX high-quality support PDF's are a good example and of high quality.

 

Such a guide would be invaluable to we non-developers ill-equipped to interpret the technical complexity of the SDK in practical terms. It would answer questions such as: Can I put my ORBX scenery on a spare, smaller SSD, and if so how?  Or do I need to go out and buy a larger one?  What must i simply NOT do  to stay out of trouble with v3?  Yes we trust and developers and wait for their installers.  But will they tell us what's actually possible and perfectly workable if we wanted to DIY safely? 

 

Do we have some leaders here (with some free to give) that can make this sort of thing happen?