Low FPS?

[j0nz 4]

Was really looking forward to this fixer fixing problems with orbx products that shouldn't be there (but that's another topic altogether) but am having serious FPS issues when using this product. Sitting on the heli pad at Jefferson before the fixer I am just about at 20fps with most settings to the right. After the fixer I am at 16, maybe. The difference between 20 and 16 is a lot though when it comes to control. Across the board I'd say my fps is down about 15-20% when running with the fixer. Disabling it returns the fps to normal. I thought I was supposed to get a good boost? Any ideas?

[SteveFx 258]

On performance its difficult to say anything helpful.

 

The Fixer is performance neutral - i.e the performance you get in DX10 preview without it should be the same as with it.

 

In comparing DX9 and DX10 its impossible to make any definitive predictions as systems vary so much - generally I see similar performance (with identical AA settings).  Heavy clouds have more impact in DX10 unless the fixer cloud options are enabled Cloud Clip and Discard Fogged.

 

I would  uninstall the libraries and check that your problem isn't related to the fixer itself in any way - then reinstall check cloud options, run diagnostics, check AA and other settings are identical. Perhaps download the DX10 How to guide from NZFSIM and check settings from there too.

[mikelockwood 3]

I'm also getting low fps. I have read and appreciate the comments above, but using DX10 only gives me 6 to 8 fps at cruising altitude (high cruise fl250 and above) I'm using addons such as PMDG, REX, VOTATC6 so I appreciate that I will get a frame hit. At busy airports I get around 20fps which I'm happy with as performance is smooth. I thought that the airport activity would be more punishing than flying high with just terrain and sky. In DX9 l would normally expect around 40 fps at high altitude. I suspect that this is to do with LOD settings/terrain settings and would appreciate any help. As you have said, your fix is mostly neutral so I'd expect at least the performance as what I had before. I've read your manual and also the How to guide.

Regards Mike

[SteveFx 258]

What happens when young install the libraries is the frame rate the same or different?

 

I cannot understand why you might have such poor rates. Have you set a much higher sssgaa setting in dx10 than in dx9 or are you using 32 bit water or cloud textures?

 

You frame rate is determined by the minimum of CPU, GPU and sometimes texture loading. At high level you can see a lot of clouds which with too high super sampling level may cause a hit on the GPU but that would be the same in dx9

[mikelockwood 3]

Thank you for your reply Steve. I haven't replied for a while as I thought that I'd go away and experiment so more. I've tried all sorts of sssgaa combinations but still have the low frame rates at high altitudes. In dx9 I had never tried Nvidia inspector at all prior to using dx10, I just had the graphics card set to application controlled, so wanted to familiarise myself with the different settings in Nvida inspector case it was something that I had done wrong. My graphics card is only a Geo Force GTX 560 ti so it's not exactly high end by today's standards, but with careful tuning I've always had a workable FSX considering all my add ons. By the way, I've been careful with textures. I keep my clouds on DXT5 and wave animations on DXT1. Cloud resolution is at 512.

Sooooo today I decided to check out your suggestion, I uninstalled the libraries and took off in heavy cloud and rain, set the altimeter for 32,000 feet. Externally my fps improved even though there was plenty of heavy cloud around. Once I reach crusiing level and the weather was clear in the distance, external fps was back to the 40fps region. Even my cockpit very was back in the mid 20's which I'm happy enough with considering that I fly PMDG aircraft all of the time. I did notice now though that the cockpit shadows were more blocky and jagged as a result of this.

So where do I go from here? I assume from your suggestion that you suspected that the libraries might make a difference. Do I give up on dx10? or perhaps now you can advise me what to do with the library situation. I notice that there's a Debug section, perhaps there's areas there that you could advise me to experiment with.

Many thanks

MIke

[Tom Wright 438]

I have a 560Ti as well. With the Libraries installed and DX10 enabled I get stable 30fps in most situations, dropping to 20fps in complex aircraft and at detailed airports, with autogen dense. Like you, I have REX textures dialled down to 512, I don't really see much difference in visual quality from the 4096 ones to be honest. The only thing I have turned off is light bloom, as this kills my fps.

 

I gave up with Sparse Grid Supersampling (SGSS), as I found that is what cuts my performance in half. In fact for now the only thing I've set through Inspector is the Anisotropic filtering level at 16x, and I just use the 2x or 4x AA setting in the DX10 fixer. For me, although this is quite low, it doesn't look too bad. DX10 is worth it for the cockpit shadows in my opinion. I would really miss them going back to DX9.

[mikelockwood 3]

Thanks Tom for your comments. I am running Windows 7 64 bit with an I7 3.4 ghz processor so I don't know if you have more processing power than me. I shall try your settings to see if that helps and wait for Steve to reply with any suggestions. I am reluctant to go back to dx9 for the same reason as you, the cockpit shadows really are awesome. I am a realist and don't expect miracles from Steve's fixer, just comparable performance to dx9

Many thanks for your help,

Best wishes,

Mike

[Tom Wright 438]

No worries Mike. I have an i7 4770K at 3.9GHz so not far above yours.  I did read somewhere that with the older 500 series cards like ours it's the SGSS which cripples them the most, so worth a try. It did improve things a bit for me anyway.

[SteveFx 258]

with the libraries uninstalled you are running without the fixer - which is the reason that the shadows look so much worse.

 

All I conclude is that one of the fixer options is over taxing your GPU - but I am very surprised by that as I test on low end GPUs.  There are some options labelled as more expensive in the manual .   The best thing to do is  install the libraries - then go into the debug dialog and untick the 5  shader tick boxes on the left hand side.  That should disable the fixer but this time with the libraries installed. 

 

Test again - you should find the performance is as per your previous findings - if not tell me.

 

Assuming it is the same then go into the debug and re-enable the shaders one at a time from the bottom - so start with rain, test, then add cloud etc

 

Test each time and tell me what you find.

[mikelockwood 3]

Thanks Steve for your prompt reply and also to Tom as well. I will run some test flights and carry out your instructions. I'll report back in due course.

Many thanks

Mike

[mikelockwood 3]

Hi Steve, I've tried some tests today. I reinstalled the libraries and unticked the 5 shader boxes. I carried out 6 tests in all, all shaders unticked and then adding a shader each time. I've tried to add some consistency but cutting back on add ons. The test criteria that I have used are, EGKK Gatwick, runway 08R, FSX weather set to fair, time 12 noon. Climbing out to FL300 straight course off runway of 79 degrees. I've used no REX live weather, no ATC (I use VOX normally) no Track IR (to keep cockpit static without head movement). My FSX loads with UTX and GEX and I use EZCA which also loads. I used my PMDG 737-800 NGX as I wanted to see how the cockpit performed. By the way, I keep the textures down to 1024 in the cockpit so as not to overtax things too much.

 

Test 1 - No Shaders

On runway cockpit view 20 fps av          External view (behind, looking forward  38 fps av

At FL100               "        20 fps av                   "                                 "                  40 fps av

At FL 200              "        23 fps av                   "                                 "                  50 fps av

At FL 300              "        27 fps av                   "                                 "                  18 fps av

 

Test 2 - Rain Shader added

On runway            "         19 fps av                  "                                  "                  35 fps av

At FL 100              "         19 fps av                  "                                  "                  35 fps av

At FL 200              "         23 fps av                  "                                  "                  40 fps av

At FL 300              "         25 fps av                  "                                  "                  18 fps av

 

Test 3 - Rain/Cloud Shaders added

On runway            "          21 fps av                 "                                  "                  33 fps av

At FL 100              "          18 fps av                 "                                  "                  35 fps av

At FL 200              "          25 fps av                 "                                  "                  45 fps av

At FL 300              "          23 fps av                 "                                  "                  17 fps av

 

Test 4 - Rain/Cloud/Water shaders added

On runway            "           21 fps av                "                                  "                   35 fps av

At FL 100              "           20 fps av                "                                  "                   38 fps av

At FL 200              "           25 fps av                "                                  "                   45 fps av

At FL 300              "           26 fps av                "                                  "                   17 fps av

 

Test 5 - Rain/Cloud/Water/General shaders added

On runway            "            20 fps av                "                                 "                   32 fps av

At FL100               "            18 fps av                "                                 "                   35 fps av

At FL 200              "            25 fps av                "                                 "                   45 fps av

At FL 300              "            26 fps av                "                                 "                   15 fps av

 

Test 6 - Rain/Cloud/Water/General/Legacy shaders added

On runway            "            19 fps av                "                                  "                   32 fps av

At FL100               "            21 fps av                "                                  "                   35 fps av

At FL 200              "            24 fps av                "                                  "                   39 fps av

At FL 300              "            23 fps av                "                                  "                   15 fps av

 

In my opinion the shaders are working fine. It's hard to get perfect results with FSX. Perhaps the only thing to note is only 15 fps at FL 300 when adding General and Legacy shaders. I'm wondering also if the fps falls away slightly at higher altitudes when the contrails kick in (I also use Precipitfx). My own conclusion is that I've screwed around with my fsx.cfg and NVidia settings so many times that I've tweaked myself into oblivion!!!

 

I await your opinion Steve and anyone else that has any I ideas. I really don't want to give up on DX10!! I'm happy to post my fsx.cfg here if anyone is interested.

Many thanks,

Mike

[SteveFx 258]

Mike

 

What options are set in the effects/lights dialog?

 

Steve

[Tom Wright 438]

Are you using UK2000 Gatwick? If so your fps there are around the same as I'm getting in the NGX VC. Once I'm in the air my fps hover around in the mid 20s when I'm in the VC, but stay pegged at 30 (I have the internal limiter set to 30) when I switch to an exterior view. Only when I'm out over the sea away from any scenery do I get 30 fps in the VC.

 

I don't see the dip above FL300 that you get, I'm not sure what would cause that, other than that contrails effect add on you are using is very inefficient. Even without shaders installed, 18fps at that altitude is quite low.

[mikelockwood 3]

Hi Steve. I'll come back to you tomorrow regarding the effects/lights. I'm using my iPad right now so not on the PC.

Tom, I'm not using UK2000 Gatwick, just a freeware add on from the Avsim library. Other than bringing the airport up to date, it's pretty much just an FSX airport.

I take your point about contrails, but DX9 coped ok. In fact I'm quite pleased in general with all my add ons. I expected higher frame rates leaving out REX etc but with everything running the results are not that much lower than above, except when I hit higher altitudes in DX10 (which never happened in DX9)

Thanks again for your input,

Regards

Mike

[SteveFx 258]

I notice on the PrecipFx support forum that there is discussion on Dx10 and contrails - do you have their recommended settings?  

 

Like Tom I think that the most likely candidate for you fps loss is something related to the contrails - converting a particle effect with the fixer would cause a large performance drop.