I love the MD-11 but...

[killairbus 3]

My name is Angelo Busato and I am a proud customer of PMDG,

 

I believe PMDG is one of the greatest when it comes to add ons, their exquisite attention to detail and effort put into their

 

products is largely unmatched in the flight sim world. So imagine my happiness when my father gave me his credit card on

 

my birthday and told me I could download any pay-ware I wanted. I chose the MD-11, my favorite modern jet, as my gift that

 

day. But then, when I fired up my FSX I became disappointed, because the MD-11 was below my and PMDG standards. I

 

was saddened that I could never bear to land this beautiful bird at full flaps because when the spoilers popped up, it

 

revealed that there are no hinges connecting the inboard panels to the wing, and if looked under the wings I noticed

 

the slats' hinges are just painted on, so everything appeared to be "floating." Then I switched to the GE model and I

 

noticed that engines 1&3 from behind looked as though barely any thrust can be expelled from the cone snapped exhaust

 

because it seemed to cover the nearly all of the engine, just compare it with what an actual MD-11 GE engine looks in the first link below with a PMDG model in the one right after.     

 

 

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/329488/pt-msj-tam-linhas-areas-mcdonnell-douglas-md-11

 

ˆEven at this angle you can see that there is a circular "gap" between the rear engine cowl and cone exhaust so the non

 

combusted air from the fan can pass through, and right around the cone bit, a gap for the actual thrust to emerge.

 

 

 

 

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/46237-md11-freighter/

 

ˆNotice how the PMDG Saudia MD-11F engine #3 looks much tighter than that of TAM's engine 3. You can barely notice that there are  

 

gaps for thrust to flow through. Only engine #2 of Saudia looks accurate because you can see how air can flow from the fan

 

out from the outer gap and thrust from the inner gap. 

 

 

I don't mean to be harsh, i understand how challenging modeling a plane can be, but If PMDG would please update the flap, slat and engine texture this product would be well worth the $60. 

[Beardyman 604]

U have to be aware that we are talking about 10 years old product.

Considering time and fact that still many folks are using it and enjoy it ( including me ) it means that this plane was masterpiece and way ahead of any other available planes for FS9/FSX.

And finally - which Captain observe flaps and engines during flight ? :wink: 

 

( PMDG many times officially confirmed that this project is dead for them, so no any updates - you have to live with what you have, love it or leave it ) 

[killairbus 3]

Well then they should lower the price for the 10 year old MD-11 then. The PMDG 747-400 is being sold at a lower price AND it's got fine details on its exterior. Things that the MD-11 lacks. And if I'm supposed to be a true Captian and stay only in the cockpit why I am I paying so much for a cockpit that doesn't even have a weather radar?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Well then they should lower the price for the 10 year old MD-11 then. The PMDG 747-400 is being sold at a lower price AND it's got fine details on its exterior. Things that the MD-11 lacks. And if I'm supposed to be a true Captian and stay only in the cockpit why I am I paying so much for a cockpit that doesn't even have a weather radar?

 

...because back when it was made, weather radar was not feasible. It wasn't even a possibility until the 777, and even that was after the 777 was originally released and required an update to the product (and the NGX).

 

As mentioned earlier, the product is ten years old, and things were quite different back then. Additionally, pricing policy is not to be discussed here on the forum.

 

Finally, please make sure to include your first and last name in each post.

[killairbus 3]

I understand why they would lack the tech that is available on today's products, but what I now don't understand is why is the MD-11 priced as though it is a modern product? This is why I asked for updates so that some sense of value can be restored, it just seems the MD-11 is deliberately over priced.

 

 

Angelo Busato

[evaamo 549]

Angelo, I understand your frustration as I've also been critical at the lack of love by PMDG for the MD-11. I understand it was a commercial failure for them, but at the current price tag it is highly unattractive and in my opinion they could probably expand the MD-11 user base by lowering its price to the mid $30 or $40 range. It is, to me, a chicken and egg problem at this point in time.

 

Having said that, I think you are missing great fun by being disappointed at cosmetic aspects of an otherwise awesome simulation. The MD-11 is a great aircraft which grows in you after you learn it and start to use it correctly. In my opinion it is one of the most fun aircraft available, even if it's a 10-year old add-on.

 

Suggestion, if I may: Stop looking at the exteriors and start enjoying the systems and the flying experience, which is the real gem hidden in the product. You will end up loving it if you are able to see past these minor visual annoyances.

 

Cheers

-E

[denthibbe 18]

What I've never understood and probably never will is the pickiness of some about the exterior model. I for one never ever switch to outside view.

Hell, if PMDG did sell a cockpit only version of their products (at lower price) I would be the first in row the buy it instead of having an exterior model I have no use for and which is sucking up precious resources... on top of that, it would reduce development time (I reckon the exterior is not the biggest part of development but still, it would help)

[Jimm 437]

What I've never understood and probably never will is the pickiness of some about the exterior model. I for one never ever switch to outside view.

Hell, if PMDG did sell a cockpit only version of their products (at lower price) I would be the first in row the buy it instead of having an exterior model I have no use for and which is sucking up precious resources... on top of that, it would reduce development time (I reckon the exterior is not the biggest part of development but still, it would help)

 

+1

Denthibbe, I would stand just behind you :-)

And I stand just 2 feet behind both of you...blood spatter.  :t0152:

 

Seriously though, it's with anything that someone creates.  Over time, technique changes, new ideas come up and thusly a later product always seems to look and function better than the first.  Tis always better to be thankful for what you have than to criticize over the little things.

 

-Jim

[killairbus 3]

I do love the MD-11, and the reason why I love it is through how it looks and I am nit picky because of that. I mean is that not how all of us became aviation enthusiasts? We saw our planes before the cockpits? Seeing all that metal move, wings flexing, engines roaring, wheels retracting.

Exterior models are what primarily distinguish our jets from others. Or think about this, do you like Ferraries or other striking cars because you like the color of the leather on the seats? No! It's the body's styling, the lines, the curves etc.

 

Angelo Busato

[flyforever 267]

Angelo,

Why is it that  when faced with the following options, " you can have all the rivets and hinges", but it will cost you an extra $50. Or you can have it as is and pay the current price, many buyers simply pick the latter.

As a small developers, every little additional detail costs me money, and this additional cost will either increase the price of the product that some customers wont be willing to pay, or make my margins too slim to stay in business.

 

 

So while I understand that many models and panels leave some details out, I am glad that "in my mind" , I can fly my favorite plane.

 

This, of course, doesn't mean that some developers should be very sloppy or literally put out junk-- which some have done and are no longer in business.

antonio

[JYW 2,980]

What I've never understood and probably never will is the pickiness of some about the exterior model. I for one never ever switch to outside view.

Hell, if PMDG did sell a cockpit only version of their products (at lower price) I would be the first in row the buy it instead of having an exterior model I have no use for and which is sucking up precious resources... on top of that, it would reduce development time (I reckon the exterior is not the biggest part of development but still, it would help)

 

You probably already know, but you can go into the "Model" folder of any aircraft, and open the model.cfg file, and remove (or comment out;-  '//') the line 'normal=____'  .....and this will remove the external model, and only the VC will be present in the sim ..... with the resource savings that go with that.  Not something I'd personally consider but for hardcore 'sim' / cockpit experience fans, it's a viable option.

[BlueStar 323]

I understand why they would lack the tech that is available on today's products, but what I now don't understand is why is the MD-11 priced as though it is a modern product? This is why I asked for updates so that some sense of value can be restored, it just seems the MD-11 is deliberately over priced.

 

 

Angelo Busato

Angelo,

 

In a lot of ways the "tech" on the MD-11 is in the same class or better than the B737/B777. There is a lot more airplane there than most folks realize. Don't forget about the JS4100.

 

blaustern

[untoweechja 35]

I mean is that not how all of us became aviation enthusiasts? We saw our planes before the cockpits? Seeing all that metal move, wings flexing, engines roaring, wheels retracting.

For me it was quite the opposite.  My first flight, when I was just a kid, was a commercial flight on a DC-3. Seeing the airplane was fun, of course (this was back in the day when you walked from the gate to the plane) and the actual flight was exciting beyond anything I'd experienced to that point in my life.  

 

Even so, I fell in love with aviation after the flight when the captain invited my little brother and I to the front of the cockpit and gave us the grand tour (and no, he didn't ask if we'd ever been in a Turkish prison).  I spent the next five years drawing flight instruments and controls on big cardboard boxes and using them as my pretend airplanes.

 

In the sim, I rarely go outside of the cockpit during a flight and I never spend more than a few minutes looking at the exterior model, even on a new purchase.  I'll even give a sub-par interior a pass if the systems and flight model make up for it.  I know it's a minority opinion, but it wouldn't phase me one bit if vendors didn't bother with an external model.

 

My intent is not to argue with you or say you're wrong as everyone has their own ideals and expectations. Keep in mind however that a ten year old product was also developed with ten year old tools, and more importantly ten year old computing power.  We have better models now because it's more feasible to produce better models now.

[signmanbob 592]

What I don't understand is how the MD11 could have been a failure.  They did an amazing job making that aircraft and it is also one of my favorites.  Of course I'm not a rivet counter by any means, but I do enjoy seeing this beauty cruise above the clouds.

I love the MD11 because it is so unique.  The systems are different from either Boeing or Airbus and so well modeled by PMDG.

It is still well worth the money, in my opinion.

[kevinh 409]

I do love the MD-11, and the reason why I love it is through how it looks and I am nit picky because of that. I mean is that not how all of us became aviation enthusiasts? We saw our planes before the cockpits? Seeing all that metal move, wings flexing, engines roaring, wheels retracting.

Exterior models are what primarily distinguish our jets from others. Or think about this, do you like Ferraries or other striking cars because you like the color of the leather on the seats? No! It's the body's styling, the lines, the curves etc.

 

Angelo Busato

While PMDG make excellent external models what distinguishes their products from others is the depth of simulation included. If you love the MD-11 then forget about the minor details lacking in the external appearance and use the sim to learn more about how to operate it. It remains one of the best and most detailed simulations of an airliner that is available and well worth every penny of the price.