737ngx99

Awful AA in P3D v3

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We are fast reaching the point when attempting to compare FSX with P3D as to it's CPU usage, thread optimizations etc is an exercise in futility.

 

Folks - FSX is NOT P3D.  FSX is NOT ESP.  There are similarities but LM has made enough significant code changes to make comparison as to function useless.

 

Nick's references to FSX are correct - FOR FSX - but even he has acknowledged there have been significant changes in P3D, enough to make them quite different.

 

The comment "well, it works in FSX" is completely useless - about equal to saying "it works in Xplane" - Apples and oranges.

 

Vic

 

 

Well .... It has taken a while - but I hope that the umbilical has finally and irrevocably been severed. Thank you Vic. A long overdue statement.  :Applause:

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For me, it comes down to 2 things. Either use SGSS via nVidia Inspector, OR add mipmaps to your aircraft. 

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Regarding the AA, generally setting 4xMSAA in the P3D display settings is good with aircraft such as the B58. But other aircraft models like the A36 may not look properly anti-aliased with only this setting, especially when zooming out the view. In this case the infamous SGSSAA with NI can be added (in the same multiple as MSAA) to good effect but practically halving the fps on some GPUs.

Problem I'm referring to here is to do with the scale of pixel sizes in the transparency. Adding mipmaps doesn't help because pixels are still the same size irrespective of how many mipmaps are provided.

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As someone who has had FSX for several years and only a couple of weeks ago added P3D v. 3.1 into my dedicated flight simulation computer it became immediately obvious that there are significant differences or improvements in this particular version of P3D versus FSX. A brief comparison of the two configuration files, while similar, also have some striking differences with many settings in P3D that don't exist in FSX. After my initial flight in P3D the most obvious visual difference on my system was the inherent better smoothness of P3D. I don't pretend to be an expert in why this is the case but I suspect it's the addition of Hardware Tessellation if you have a graphics card that can support it. It also became evident fairly quickly that the settings that many of us used in NV Inspector were not needed or relevant. We no longer needed to have Anisotropic filtering set in Inspector as P3D v.3.1 has multiple settings available within the program. AA control is also different inasmuch as P3D has various multisampling settings available that do not exist in FSX. There's also HDR lighting, shadow reflection and distance controls, and mipmapping of VC cockpit panels that are not in FSX. There is also a P3D pdf file entitled Settings that contains a section entitled Advanced Settings that indicates a number of P3D settings in the configuration file that can be altered that are not in FSX.

It is, however, worthy to note that two popular "tweaks" that many use in FSX (LOD_RADIUS and FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION) are still relevant in P3D. Many use 6.5 for the LOD_RADIUS setting in FSX which had to be done by changing the default value from 4.5 in the FSX config file. That is no longer required as P3D has changed the Level of Detail Radius slider in the Scenery setting tab to take the setting to 6.5 if set to Max, 5.5 if set to Ultra, etc.. FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION which doesn't exist in either the FSX or P3D configuration files can also be added to both. By default this setting is 0.33 but for upper end computer systems it can be lowered which will improve frame rates. Typically many use 0.15 as starting setting. At some point a low setting will start to show the "blurries".

I'm much less concerned with the similarities between P3D and FSX as I am with what's different, new, and improved in P3D V3.1. Thus the question regarding hyper threading and it's relevance to P3D. I'm also curious if P3D has improved the default mesh and landclass that existed in FSX among other things. In my desire to increase my knowledge of the inner workings of P3D V3.1 and what various settings can do for increased quality and/or performance I have found many conflicting suggestions and recommendations which make it harder to determine what's correct and what's not.

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 I'm also curious if P3D has improved the default mesh and landclass that existed in FSX among other things. In my desire to increase my knowledge of the inner workings of P3D V3.1 and what various settings can do for increased quality and/or performance I have found many conflicting suggestions and recommendations which make it harder to determine what's correct and what's not.

 

I dont think anything has changed from fsx in regards to mesh and landclass hence we still have to use Our payware mesh and landclass placement  in P3D

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I use "Enhance Application Settings" not override.  Also recommend you don't run a different DXGI (like SweetFX/Reshade and/or any product that puts a DXGI in the root of P3D).

 

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As far as monitors, one step up to 4K will make the AA look great without having to use NI SGSS AA.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

hello, I used to use these settings, but since I updated the Nvidia 368.22 P3D software not working as before and have lower flow , I want to know if someone else is in the same situation as me

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hello, I used to use these settings, but since I updated the Nvidia 368.22 P3D software not working as before and have lower flow , I want to know if someone else is in the same situation as me

 

You may be correct sir. I just updated and AA seems to have been compromised. 4xMS + 4SGSS seems to not be working effectively, but laughably is still affecting performance.  Reverting back to 365.19. BTW I am using GTX970.

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Thanks guys for the help. I will try these methods and let you know how it works!

 

/Jacob

Another really simple one..that give great FPS...and has no stair-step jaggies..is to ONLY use the actual Nvidia driver suite mask not N.I,...., and only use FXAA.   I tried that for a change, and was amazed in how it actually looked like all the other combo's adding up. It gave the best FPS of any sort of AA and you don't need to run the FXAA inside the sim.  You can also have 8x inside the sim with this one method.  It didn't blur/blend as much as I anticipated it would....

 

If you try this...back up your N.I. profiles....DELETE your P3D profile...and then adjust the right-click on desktop driver mask....turn on FXAA..make sure no other AA is used...and away you go...enjoy your flight. Very important that you delete your P3D file so only the native nvidia  driver settings are in play.

 

I read online that this was some other chap's favorite setting, and the only AA he uses. I was curious...and tried it.  I see why he raves about it.

 

Great FPS, and a clean look to all the lines of the plane...metal angles, as well as paint....oh..and this with the latest driver...368.22

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You may be correct sir. I just updated and AA seems to have been compromised. 4xMS + 4SGSS seems to not be working effectively, but laughably is still affecting performance.  Reverting back to 365.19. BTW I am using GTX970.

So the solution is to revert to the previous version of Nvidia ? there's no other solution ? I tested with another adjustment on nvidia inspector but no improvement

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The best nVidia drivers that work for me (Titan X) is 361.43.

 

Also delete your shaders (i.e. C:\Users\Rob\AppData\Local\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Shaders)  whenever you CTD or change drivers.

 

Also try using DDU to uninstall old drivers in safe mode.  Download driver of choice from nVidia and install (Run As Admin).

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I have just upgraded to the 368.22 drivers over the weekend (from 347.52). I would have been quite happy to keep the old drivers, but I needed to uninstall them to solve a problem with Nvidia Inspector, so I decided to update at the same time. I used DDU to uninstall my old drivers, and then installed the new ones (minus GeForce Experience......the cause of my NVI problems). I have not tested P3D v3.1 yet, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I must also remember to delete those shaders!

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The best nVidia drivers that work for me (Titan X) is 361.43.

 

Also delete your shaders (i.e. C:\Users\Rob\AppData\Local\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\Shaders)  whenever you CTD or change drivers.

 

Also try using DDU to uninstall old drivers in safe mode.  Download driver of choice from nVidia and install (Run As Admin).

 

Cheers, Rob.

I downloaded DDU he my to uninstall the former pilots in mode without failure, I am going to install the last pilot of Nvidia to make a new test, if I always have a loss of FPS I would return has a former pilot of Nvidia

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I have 'updated' from 361.43 to 368.22. I can not feel or see any difference. Smooth and fluent. Also AA (SGSS in NI) is working - and still required.

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As of today, what would you guys recommend in order to run P3D 3.3 in a 4k TV (are there *large* dedicated monitors in the market?) with the best quality AA possible, including severely complex weather with the best FPS? DisplayPort connection/cable is the best option in this case?

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SGSS AA will always provide the best AA regardless of monitor type or screen resolution or game/sim for that matter.

 

I use 8X MSAA and it works well in all situations for my setup including clouds ... the AA is good enough for me, but not as good as SGSS AA. 

 

On the 4K monitor side, I would avoid any monitors that appear to "lag" at 30Hz operation (a quality monitor shouldn't do this with P3D).

 

Cheers, Rob.

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DisplayPort connection/cable is the best option in this case?

 

HDMI2 works fine.

If you need vsync on, 30FPS is the best you are going to get with any serious add-on scenery/weather.

But don't worry, it can be very smooth at those settings.

 

gb.

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HDMI2 works fine.

If you need vsync on, 30FPS is the best you are going to get with any serious add-on scenery/weather.

But don't worry, it can be very smooth at those settings.

 

gb.

 

But DisplayPort might give a better image quality? I won't need HDMI because I don't plan to play the sounds in the TV's speakers, instead I plan to continue to use the direct connection from the "sound card" (MoBo onboard) to my 2.1 speaker system, as I do today. As to the frame rate, I really don't expect anything above 30 FPS, as I tend to use the graphic settings mostly to the "high" side and in the last years I've been happy enough with it locked in 30 (sometimes 20+ or even 15+ on some extreme situations).

I heard that within P3D 3.3 it's not possible to use vSync to it's full advantages because the program doesn't run in a real fullscreen mode, is that right?

Together with the 4k screen I plan to use a single GTX 980 TI with 6 GB of VRAM, what do you think? The 1080 cards would be more suitable?

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

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But DisplayPort might give a better image quality?

 

 

I doubt it but there is no reason not to use DP.

DP 1.3 and 1.4 have upped to specs a bit though which might help with the newer 120Hz 4Ks..

There don't seem too many TVs with DP input though? Panasonic excepted.

 

 

I heard that within P3D 3.3 it's not possible to use vSync to it's full advantages because the program doesn't run in a real fullscreen mode, is that right?

 

 

Not really correct.

Nvidia's 1/2, 1/3... refresh rates vsync does not work but P3D's own vsync works ok.

 

 

Together with the 4k screen I plan to use a single GTX 980 TI with 6 GB of VRAM, what do you think? The 1080 cards would be more suitable?

 

 

I've had a Samsung 4K with a GTX980Ti for awhile.

Today I would be tempted to go with the 1080.

I would look for some more feed back on that though.

 

gb.

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Not really correct.
Nvidia's 1/2, 1/3... refresh rates vsync does not work but P3D's own vsync works ok.

 

So is it a right way to disable vsync from NCP and use the P3D´s own instead?

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So is it a right way to disable vsync from NCP and use the P3D´s own instead?

 

No don't disable it in NCP.

Just leave NCP at it's default Vsync setting of "Use the 3D application setting".

Then turn on Vsync in P3D.

 

gb.

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No don't disable it in NCP.

Just leave NCP at it's default Vsync setting of "Use the 3D application setting".

Then turn on Vsync in P3D.

 

Excellent, thank you

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I doubt it but there is no reason not to use DP.

DP 1.3 and 1.4 have upped to specs a bit though which might help with the newer 120Hz 4Ks..

There don't seem too many TVs with DP input though? Panasonic excepted.

 

 

 

 

Not really correct.

Nvidia's 1/2, 1/3... refresh rates vsync does not work but P3D's own vsync works ok.

 

 

 

 

I've had a Samsung 4K with a GTX980Ti for awhile.

Today I would be tempted to go with the 1080.

I would look for some more feed back on that though.

 

gb.

 

Nice advice. Gonna check if the one I plan to buy has or not the port.

 

I'm gonna try that, but I have to confess I haven't been noticing any tearing in the image as I used to have in FSX before properly setting up the half vSync. In P3D I just set 30 FPS (internal, I'm not even using NI nor other things) and it just looks like not having tearing.

 

What VGA card do you have today? I really need to research about this, like checking if a "TI" edition of an older card is better or not than a newer one, but not "TI" edition... For my current Full-HD display my EVGA GTX 760 4 GB is pretty sufficient, it will only suffer when the weather is too complex and/or during dusk.

But 4k I think it would be another story... I wish I were able to have 4k with consistent frame rate (20+ at worst) and nice image quality (lack of aliasing and shimmering).

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What VGA card do you have today? I really need to research about this, like checking if a "TI" edition of an older card is better or not than a newer one, but not "TI" edition... For my current Full-HD display my EVGA GTX 760 4 GB is pretty sufficient, it will only suffer when the weather is too complex and/or during dusk.

But 4k I think it would be another story... I wish I were able to have 4k with consistent frame rate (20+ at worst) and nice image quality (lack of aliasing and shimmering).

 

Sorry I was a bit ambiguous there.

I still have the 980ti.

Works very well, but you know, always hoping for miracles from the new tech.

Definitely recommend more than 4GB vram if going 4K.

 

gb.

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i really cant understand why it is not working for me.

latest p3d.

latest nvidia drivers, clean uninstall and reinstall.

latest nvinspector.

 

i tried every possible combinations (override, enhance...)

 

i start to think it is my video card (980ti).

 

ADD: bytheway, isn't P3Dv3 DX11? if so, how do you people can force AA via Inspector, since there is no possibility to hardware force AA in DX11 ?!?!

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