Interesting RAM observations (Performance increased)

[Michael Moe 495]

First,

 

I must have been living under a rock for quite a while not having checked my RAM . I must admit i have a really bad knowledge here and thats properly why i first noticed this now.

 

I have Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600MHZ 4 x 2GB modules with different latency. 2 pieces at CL7 and 2 at CL8. (BUT running at 1333MHZ !!)

 

Now i thought my increased 10-15% performance (FPS) at EKCH FT Gate A20 was about the new installers for V3 BUT its not.

 

I had my RAM speed set at 1333MHZ normally , and just for a test earlier i had increase RAM to 1800mhz (1,65v as thats what they need and stamped on them)  before installing the new EKCH v3 installers and the redwine had me forget all about it   

 

Interesting , i can reproduce a 10-15% increase in FPS by doing so. So what does that tell me ? AN unbalanced system with potientiale for even more FPS i guess.

 

Thats why i need your help here.

 

The motherboard is a Asus Z87-Pro and as far as i can see DDR is supported all the way up to 3200MHZ . Would i gaine even 10-15% further by switching my RAM ? who knows ?

 

Anyone with knowledge for a pair of 2x8GB to go for my system? 

 

Thanks (what a cheap improvement :wink: )

 

 

I7-4770K@4,6 HT OFF 1,25V

2x GTX970SC

SSD128 W10-64bit

Seperate drive for P3Dv3

 

Michael Moe 

[TurboKen 221]

Hi Michael,

 

From my testing going from 1600mhz to 2133mhz you will gain a solid 3 fps. When scenery is dialed in about 30 fps. So yeah thats 10%.

 

I just recently bought some 2800 ram and noticed another 3 fps increase. 

 

To further prove this I dropped the ram back to 1600 speed and lost 6 fps. So it definitely makes a difference. But thats up to you if buying faster ram is worth the few fps increase.

[Michael Moe 495]

Thanks for reporting. Well its a rather cheap 15-20% gain for rather few bucks. What i am a little nerveous about is bying RAM thats not supported. Stated in the manual it says o.c as in overclocked ram but i am not sure. There is some 3000mhz RAM modules for about 150 euro 16GB. How can i tell if the work?

 

Thanks Michael Moe

[SierraDelta 1,342]

Michael,

 

You should go to the ASUS support site and get hold of the latest DRAM Qualified Vendors List (QVL) file for your specific board, they regularly update the list when new memory products become available from the various manufacturers. If a product is on the latest version of the list it will work.

[Michael Moe 495]

Michael,

 

You should go to the ASUS support site and get hold of the latest DRAM Qualified Vendors List (QVL) file for your specific board, they regularly update the list when new memory products become available from the various manufacturers. If a product is on the latest version of the list it will work.

 

 

Thanks doing that right now and wow what a jungle  :wink:

 

Michael moe

[Bunkers 52]

Good news, as I've just discovered my mobo is faulty and runs my 1600mhz RAM in single channel only. Thus running at only 800-ish mhz.

 

New system in the pipeline with dual channel 2133mhz, can't wait to witness the fitness  B)

[Michael Moe 495]

Good news, as I've just discovered my mobo is faulty and runs my 1600mhz RAM in single channel only. Thus running at only 800-ish mhz.

 

New system in the pipeline with dual channel 2133mhz, can't wait to witness the fitness B)

How did you checked that?

 

Why i am askin is because cpu-z shows 899 mhz under memory section 1.65v on my system . Is that even correct?

 

Michael Moe

[Michael Moe 495]

It looks lige the QVL is not up to date over at Asus or maybe it just meens my Motherboard doesnt supports newer DDR3 ram ?

 

Many of these Ram modules is now not in production any more . Any suggeestion?

 

for instance from the list CORSAIR CMZ16GX3M2A2400C10 (Ver4.21) 2400MHZ 

 

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-PRO/Z87-PRO_DRAM_QVL_1029.pdf

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-PRO/Z87-PRO_DRAM_QVL_0820.pdf

 

Thanks

[Bunkers 52]

How did you checked that?

 

Why i am askin is because cpu-z shows 899 mhz under memory section 1.65v on my system . Is that even correct?

 

Michael Moe

 

CPU-Z also shows if you're running single or dual channel in the memory section. Now that I've upgraded my system it shows "Channel #: Dual" and "DRAM Frequency: 1067 MHz" which should add up to 2133 MHz if I understand things correctly. 

[Michael Moe 495]

Just an update to those who are interested. I just upgraded my 1600MHZ Dominator DDR3 1.65V ram to 2400 MHZ Corsair . I saw an increase in FPS about 6-7% again going from o/c 1800 Mhz to 2400MHZ.

 

In my case i totally have gone from 46fps (1333MHZ) at gate A20 EKCH FT with the NGX VC with pretty heavy sliders and 2048 textures to 54fps.

 

i sold the old ones and spent 45 dollars. What a early christmas gift to my self  :wink:  Not even Skylake (or maybe just)would have given me this i guess in terms of FPS. 

 

As Rob says its all about having a balanced system. Maybe 3000MHZ would increase 10% again but to exspensive right now.

 

 

 

Michael Moe

[westman 257]

Haswell DDR3 memspeed the most effency you get with 2800 cl10 24/7.

Not all cpu.s can make 3000mhz memspeed it depending how lucky you ar with the lotteria.

Yes you have 2 , first how much it overclock in ghz then how strong memcontroller you get, if lucky you get a 3200 mhz stable one.

For Haswell i recomend 2666-2800 8gb for fligtsim , 16gb is harder on memcontroller 2666mhz recomended not all CPU.s can make 2800mhz stable.

[Guest]

Yes, it's all about balance ... word on caution on RAM, I've found that good RAM doesn't need to cost a fortune.  Things to look for are who manufactures the RAM chips - I don't mean brand names like Corsair, GSkill, but who actually makes the memory chips like Hynix, Micron.  Also be careful with CL ... I see 3400Mhz RAM but at very high CL.

 

I use several different products to test my RAMs performance, but I like SiSoftware Sandra the most for RAM testing.  On my main system I'm operating at 63GB/s with CL15 3000Mhz DDR4 quad channel with very low latency.

 

I was just testing out DD New York X V2 last night and was locked at a solid (stutter free) 30 FPS (30Hz Vsync) with ASN weather using my high graphics settings (also amazed I was only at 2.8GB VAS usage) using higher quality textures from DD.  VRAM was high 4.5GB used ... but this is a good thing (will post video later) ... yes even the PMDG 737 and 777 can fly DD New York V2 without issue in P3D V3.

 

But yes, it's all about balance and one's graphics settings will be determine by that balance.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[gboz 157]

For Haswell i recomend 2666-2800 8gb for fligtsim , 16gb is harder on memcontroller 2666mhz recomended not all CPU.s can make 2800mhz stable.

 

westman, what about Skylake, 8GB or 16GB?

 

gb.

[AnkH 2,262]

It's really incredible how many false information is visible in such a short thread, that's why I would like to clarify it a little bit:

 

1. Dual Channel and Double Data Rate (DDR) is NOT the same. While all current RAM modules use DDR, Dual Channel (or Quad Channel) is depending on the memory controller inside your CPU. While most i5/i7 are capable of using Dual Channel, only the -E processors like 5820K on the 2011 (and following) platforms are capable of Quad Channel.

 

2. Some software only reads out the frequency without calculating the "double" of "DDR". That's why you see 1600MHz as 800MHz only or 2133MHz as 1066MHz only in those softwares. Nothing to bother about.

 

3. Dual (or Quad) Channel basically doubles your data transfer rate (bandwith). For example, with a single 1600MHz RAM module you get 12.8 GB/s, for a single 2133MHz RAM module it is already 17.0 GB/s and so on. You can calculate that rate easily like this: 1600MHz -> 1600 x 8 =12800 MB/s. Now, if you use Dual Channel, you have 25.6 GB/s with a standard 1600MHz module and even 34 GB/s with a 2133MHz module (and so on). I realized, that going higher and higher results in a plateau, as most people using a Quad Channel system already providing 51.2 GB/s with 1600MHz modules, do not profit anymore by upgrading to 2133MHz modules (providing basically 68 GB/s).

 

4. Directly linked to the frequency is the latency (CAS Latency or simply CL). The lower those numbers, the faster the memory can be addressed. To calculate THIS, there is another simplified calculation, for example for 1600MHz CL9 modules it is: 1000/800 x 9 -> 11.25ns latency. That means, the ram can be addressed freshly only every 11.25ns (not scientifically correct, but it is kinda like that). Now, if you have a 2133MHz module with CL12, the same calculation (1000/1066 x 12) gives you again 11.25ns, meaning that those 2133MHz CL12 modules only offer the advantage of higher bandwith, but regarding addressing speed, they are the same. That is why you should also consider the CL numbers. I for example run 2133MHz with CL10, this offers not only the higher bandwith but those modules are also "faster" (9.4ns) compared to basic 1600MHz CL9 modules.

 

5. Todays memory controllers are inside your CPU. This means that overclocking your memory results in overclocking your memory controller inside your CPU. In my case, my Ivybride memory controller is officially only ready for 1600MHz. Running my RAM at 2133MHz, I accept that my IMC is overclocked. I tried once 2400MHz (my RAM is actually specified for this) and it did not work, simply because the IMC of my 3770K can not stand 2400MHz in combination with the core clock of 4.5GHz. So, be careful when you overclock RAM, as not only the RAM module is overclocked, but also the memory controller inside your CPU...

 

Taking all this into consideration, you can better compare the RAM modules. DDR4 did not change those calculations, meaning that those basic DDR4 2133MHz CL15 are offering you a bandwith of 17 GB/s (single channel) and a latency of 14ns, so they are pretty bad. If you only think about latency, you will see that plenty of DDR4 modules offer CL15. Now, taking above calculation into account, you can easily calculate the frequency needed for those modules to be as "fast" as basic DDR3 1600MHz CL9 RAM: it is CL12 for 2133MHz, CL15 for 2666MHz and CL17 for 3000MHz.

[gboz 157]

 

 I realized, that going higher and higher results in a plateau, as most people using a Quad Channel system already providing 51.2 GB/s with 1600MHz modules, do not profit anymore by upgrading to 2133MHz modules (providing basically 68 GB/s).

 

 

SAAB340 on page 50 of the FSXMark11 thread shows a 5FPS gain in going from 2133 to 4133.

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/329116-fsxmark11/page-50

 

And 4133 is even further from 1600, so there must be somehow more room for improvement than theory predicts?

 

gb.