P3d 3.1 before year end

[denali 74]

If you are referring to who I think you're referring, that's incorrect, as evidenced by the venerable Arno Gerretson having recently written a utility that specifically addresses that issue. No need to reinvent that wheel Denali

Thanks.  Also, being someone who works with and for Microsoft, they don't give their blessing on anything.  If you break the rules, they'll pretty much just tell you they warned you.

[Raven9000 272]

128-bits

Wait, what..?

[Matt Webb 171]

Ok, lets deal with these one by one.

 

I am a developer.  Orbx claim that it's so difficult to upgrade is kinda a sham.  What is lacking is the focus for a half a day to fix the problems with their older products.  I suspect because of the fear of not focusing on the money is going to lose them money. 

I could take a day or two and write a routine that would fix their scheme once and for all, but I don't work for them, and they probably would get mad at me.

I wasn't referring specifically to Orbx.  They are just one of many publishers who can't afford to immediately put tools down and upgrade all their products every time a new sim comes around.  Most publishers try, but they have to balance return on investment.

 

A day or two to write a routine might be close for many publishers, but does that include required R&D, documentation, support staff briefings, making the installer compatible to FSX, FSX-SE, Prepar3Dv2 & Prepar3Dv3, testing the installer against every platform, testing the functionality against every platform, uploading to server(s) and going back to the beginning if an issue is found?  And for some publishers, replicating this for every product they sell?  All for free?

 

If you are referring to who I think you're referring, that's incorrect, as evidenced by the venerable Arno Gerretson having recently written a utility that specifically addresses that issue. No need to reinvent that wheel Denali

I think I know who you are referring  to.  Are you also referring to the Autogen utility that merges autogen customisations?  If that's the case, isn't the updated file still a standard Prepar3D file and therefore is likely to be overwritten back to a default file on an platform upgrade?

 

Thanks.  Also, being someone who works with and for Microsoft, they don't give their blessing on anything.  If you break the rules, they'll pretty much just tell you they warned you.

Depends who you talk to and how you approach them.  I work with a company that has a great rapport with them.

 

Cheers,

Matt.

[denali 74]

 

Depends who you talk to and how you approach them.  I work with a company that has a great rapport with them.

 

As if that changes the consequences.  So no, it doesn't depend ...

 

Let me just say this.  Orbx makes first rate scenery.  They just don't make first rate software.  The funny thing about all these versions of P3D and FSX, theyre not any different as far as scenery as far as Orbx is concerned.  Their problem is they started off wrong from the beginning and kinda seem too stubbord and proud to admit the mistake and fix it.  I'll say it this way:  There are no incompatibility issues with Orbx products; there are incompatibility issues with Orbx Installations.    

 

The practice of having n00b developers spend time with the installers, either those who make them or making them themselves to a standard convention, establishes a core skill.  Software is not just about your program's files. All good architecture respects the established neighborhood.

 

Year and years ago, when I was hired to teach people to be comfortable with windows (sometimes with the threat of job loss for the students - older executives), every week there would be an assignment to explore some aspect of the file system and do things like guess what a file did, why it was in that place, what it was doing in Windows/System32 or Windows/INF.  How the boot order worked.   Another was to learn how to "walkaround" a program, that is to literally walk through each and every button that could be found on the menu or toolbars or clicks in a program.  Many people live on their systems but don't really know that environment.  But that file exploration has come back to me with "I learned so much from that and it's always helped me to understand what's going on with computers".  Understanding the file system is the foundation of understanding software.

[reecemj 143]

Understanding the file system is the foundation of understanding software.

 

Great post Denali ! Filled with truth..

[carlito777 712]

Let me just say this.  Orbx makes first rate scenery.  They just don't make first rate software.  The funny thing about all these versions of P3D and FSX, theyre not any different as far as scenery as far as Orbx is concerned.  Their problem is they started off wrong from the beginning and kinda seem too stubbord and proud to admit the mistake and fix it.  I'll say it this way:  There are no incompatibility issues with Orbx products; there are incompatibility issues with Orbx Installations.    

 

 

So true. The best example showing how of crap their software is (depite being great scenery), is all that region switching PITA with FTX Central...

[denali 74]

I don't think their software is crap.  It's middle of the road, unfortunately.  It looks nice; they're artists that's for sure. Their concentration is obviously on scenery dev, which works for everyone with excellent results ... well ... mostly.  I don't wanna paint a negative picture here, or seem like the grouch about them here.  I just know that there is a different way.

[flapsdown 45]

So true. The best example showing how of crap their software is (depite being great scenery), is all that region switching PITA with FTX Central...

 

That's been gone for quite some time now - set "Hybrid" mode and your done...

[carlito777 712]

That's been gone for quite some time now - set "Hybrid" mode and your done...

Not true. Hybrid mode will give you a different appearance in the full FTX region with some objects missing compared to activating the region. And Hybrid mode will kill your VAS. Doesn't work if you fly complex aircraft add-ons. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you think it is...

[Cruachan 705]

So true. The best example showing how of crap their software is (depite being great scenery), is all that region switching PITA with FTX Central...

Actually, I find FTX Central 2 to be a very elegant solution to what would otherwise be a very difficult problem, assuming, that is, we want the best and most realistic portrayal of each region. Also, FTX Central 2 offers much more and, as it's name implies, these features are all contained and accessible under the one roof. I congratulate the ORBX Developer/s and I, for one, appreciate all these efforts which are making my Flight Simming life so much easier.

 

Maarten Boelens of SimLauncher X fame is another Developer who doesn't receive enough credit. His programming marvel is offered to the community free of any charges and incorporates numerous very useful features including the ability to switch FTX regions without needing to open FTX Central!

 

Mike

[WebMaximus 372]

I too think FTX Central 2 works really well. Should add though that I don't have any local FTX regions installed but only the global FTX products.

 

I've seen another developer who doesn't even include a normal uninstallation routine while the installation itself requires manual editing afterwards for the product to work. So IMHO I don't think it's fair to point our finger at Orbx as a poor software developer.

[swiesma 625]

Orbx works for me just fine. No problems.

 

But regarding the topic: No problems at the moment - no need to update to 3.1. Simple as that.

[ErichB 3,636]

no need to update to 3.1. Simple as that.

The only reason I am seriously considering the upgrade is the significant water improvements they are promising. My water texture is static and dull. I've lost the appearance of water movement.

 

As for Orbx - it may not be ideal, but I'm willing to put up with FTX Central. Orbx completely revolutionised our simming experience. If I had to put up with default or bland photoreal textures for the last few years I think I'd have stopped simming altogether.

[kevinfirth 1,392]

I think I know who you are referring  to.  Are you also referring to the Autogen utility that merges autogen customisations?  If that's the case, isn't the updated file still a standard Prepar3D file and therefore is likely to be overwritten back to a default file on an platform upgrade?

 

Yes thats the utility I meant. You are right it currently overwrites a default file, but...

1. It does so after merging all available autogen info at runtime, therefore meaning that it does not restrict a user to a particular one set of definitions, which most custom autogen developers do (inc orbx I believe, although they have included some other devs with theirs), thereby avoiding the limitation of one particular set of sim definitions being in place .

2. The fact this is possible (and theoretically always has been), through decompile of spb files, and merging the results, demonstrates by definition that the argument that there was no alternative technology was patently not true. It may have been the only way MS would allow Orbx to do their stuff at the time, but that cannot be said to hold true now, and especially not with LM. So when denali says he thinks the way orbx (and possibly other devs as well, not singling anyone out) could do things differently now, it probably has some traction.

 

I think the way LM have allowed config files for various elements in v3 (inc one for autogen, although not fully implemented yet) shows they recognise the limitations and benefits of different architectures. I've posted a thread on the P3D forum with LM about this as well.

 

Technologically speaking as far as I can see there is now no argument in favour of restricting end users to the use of only one set of autogen definitions. There would however be a value potentially to restricting that use if you wanted to tie users into your, and only your, scenery products? I think it will be illuminating to see over time how all devs approach this issue I'm hopeful, but not optimistic..

 

Cheers K

[scottb613 1,186]

Question - jumping from FS9 to P3D - do you have to pay for every incremental upgrade in P3D or just the major ones ? Do you have to buy the full product each time or is the a discount for previous purchases ???

 

Thanks...

 

Regards,
Scott