fsx-ms Majestic Q400 vs. PMDG 737NGX (Which easier to master)

[JWNoctis 4]

Speaking of turboprops without autothrottle, 737's are not supposed to be landed with autothrottle on unless you're doing an autoland, and the generic procedure is AP-on, AT-on and AP-off, AT-off except for takeoff TO/GA, as far as I remember. That's part of the difference negated.

 

And, of course, both are neat planes! Also Q400's VC is surprisingly fast while being this detailed with so much glass footprint, probably the fastest in its class out there.

[ckyliu 1,749]

I agree with most of the points already made. In order of difficulty for the key addons mentioned I'd say (1 being the easiest):

 

1) Aerosoft A320 Extended

2) Quality Wings Avro RJ (BAe 146)

3) PMDG Boeing 737 NGX

4) Majestic Dash 8 Q400

5) PMDG BAe Jetstream 41

 

All those aircraft are perfectly manageable providing you spend some time reading. Most include a tutorial flight with walkthrough guide, and completing those will quickly give you a good grasp of the basics.

 

I'd take the props over the jets as there's more to do and thus keep you entertained because modern jetliners are essentially "set and forget" above 3000 ft; some people enjoy this high level of automation but I don't want to be a spectator or manager, I want to be involved hands-on! I also prefer short sectors between 40 and 90 minutes, which suits the props better.

 

All the FMS have a similar level of difficulty, although the Q400's UNS-1 goes about things in a slightly different way to the others. The 737 and A320 have performance and vertical navigation capabilities that aren't on the props though.

 

The lack of autothrottle is not the hindrance some folks will have you believe; the Q400 and Avro RJ have FADEC so you push the throttles to the "RATING" detent and then engine power is adjusted for you based on phase of flight. Normally you only fine tune the throttles when levelling off or leaving the level, the autopilot's IAS and VS hold modes do the rest until approach.

 

Autoland is another thing some folks just can't do with out; it IS cool but the novelty soon wears off and then it's just taking away the fun of landing. In reality, autoland is a rarity and only used in very poor visibility or for practise, 95% of landings are hand flown.

 

If cost is a concern the PMDG NGX is the most expensive, especially if you're planning to move across to P3D or you want to fly the smaller -600 and -700 since these are charged in addition. QualityWings probably give you most for your money, and everything else falls somewhere in between. I believe the props give you the best overall value for money though.

 

FS2Crew is a superb addon but I recommend you learn fly the aircraft on your own first, because FS2Crew has a steep learning curve itself.

[PDX Flyer 111]

Thank everyone for your informative and very complete answers.  Also a special thanks to the folks who wrote the longer responses.  I know this took some time and thought.  What we have is some very useful info (I think) for non-pilots like me.

 

I have come up with a game plan.  I first will buy FS Commander to master creating flight plans, and to understanding SIDS, STARS, Air Routes, etc, etc.

Then I think I will buy and master the Aerosoft Airbus.  Once I get proficient with that, it will be the 737 NGX.

 

Happy Flying, PDX

[Holdit 551]

 

1) Aerosoft A320 Extended

2) Quality Wings Avro RJ (BAe 146)

3) PMDG Boeing 737 NGX

4) Majestic Dash 8 Q400

5) PMDG BAe Jetstream 41

 

 

 

That's a really helpful list, thanks.

 

Where would you put the Quality Wings 757? Simpler than the Airbus?

[Airline2Sim 489]

I would be biased as we've not made a training course for the NG yet, but I love the Dash 8 and Majestic have done an absolutely amazing job. We've just finished editing our 15th hour of training videos for it and there's still a ton of stuff remaining that we haven't even mentioned yet. 

 

It's a proper pilot's aircraft that makes you work for your lunch. Yes it has a glass cockpit and all the bells and whistles but those big powerful engines can get you into trouble (as well as out of it, thankfully) but the FMS, the autopilot and the sheer lunacy of its many design flaws, all of which Majestic captured beautifully will do their best to ruin your day.  

 

And of course, the biggest Q400 gotcha of them all....

 

[ckyliu 1,749]

That's a really helpful list, thanks. Where would you put the Quality Wings 757? Simpler than the Airbus?

Yes, the QW757 is probably the simplest of them all. But it's missing some features such as climb VNAV and it's a bit dated now (both the sim model and reality).

[Holdit 551]

Yes, the QW757 is probably the simplest of them all. But it's missing some features such as climb VNAV and it's a bit dated now (both the sim model and reality).

 

I already have the 757, Airbus, 146 and Q400 but still fly mainly GA, but have been thinking about making the transition. It's interesting that you've put the J41 at the top of the complexity list, because I was considering buying it - I would never have imagined it (or the Q400 for that matter) would be more complex than the PMDG 737.  A least I know the best order in which to attack them all now. I'll kick off with the 757 to ease myself in...

 

Thanks again.

[ckyliu 1,749]

...interesting that you've put the J41 at the top of the complexity list... I would never have imagined it (or the Q400 for that matter) would be more complex than the PMDG 737.

 

Turboprops are almost always more complicated than jets because you have to manage the propellers, they are more prone to icing and are typically less automated older designs. Makes them the most fun though, with the challenge comes reward!

 

PMDG J41 systems are fairly straight forward (probably more so than a 737, as the J41 is newer and simpler). The complex bit is having to completely rethink how you understand engines because if you try and operate it like a piston or jet aircraft then two simultaneous engines fires are very likely; this frustrates many people who couldn't be bothered to do the tutorial, so they end up abandoning it! Once a few hours have been spent mastering the engines, it's no more complicated than anything else.

 

The PMDG J41 is my all time favourite FSX addon (and you can feel all smug knowing many simmers can't handle it properly )

[Holdit 551]

Turboprops are almost always more complicated than jets because you have to manage the propellers, they are more prone to icing and are typically less automated older designs. Makes them the most fun though, with the challenge comes reward!

 

PMDG J41 systems are fairly straight forward (probably more so than a 737, as the J41 is newer and simpler). The complex bit is having to completely rethink how you understand engines because if you try and operate it like a piston or jet aircraft then two simultaneous engines fires are very likely; this frustrates many people who couldn't be bothered to do the tutorial, so they end up abandoning it! Once a few hours have been spent mastering the engines, it's no more complicated than anything else.

 

The PMDG J41 is my all time favourite FSX addon (and you can feel all smug knowing many simmers can't handle it properly )

 

Tempting...heh, heh. Just one more...where would you put the Leonardo Maddog on that list? I picked it up on sale price recently - couldn't resist. I know, I know...

 

(Apologies to the OP for the thread-hijack.)

[ckyliu 1,749]

I've no first hand experience of the MD80 or its derivatives, however the cockpit looks broadly similar to a 737 Classic, so it's probably a bit harder than the 737 NGX (so between 3 and 4 in me list). I'm aware the MD80 has a few quirks you need to watch out for.

 

The Leonardo Maddog has always had a good reputation for realism and systems depth but it's rather dated and thus lacking graphically.

[Bobsk8 12,682]

The Q400 demands that you fly it and stay ahead of it during the flight. It keeps me from ever getting bored. 

[AirbusCG 52]

It's interesting that everyone says the 737 is simpler. In real life it's exactly the other way round and  in fact I think so, too, in flight sim.

 

The reason why most of you say the NGX is easier is because most of you started on jets right away.

The FMC of the Dash for example can do everything you need and that the NGX FMC can do, too (of course within the boundries of the real Q400), just like the one in the NGX. You only need to invest some hours into learning it, but if you haven't flown a Boeing before it'll be equally hard to learn either.

If you come from general aviation I'd definatly go for the Dash 8.
The logic behind it is a very different one, but once you're into it it's just the same as the 737.

 

The missing Autothrottle, well, so what? In cruise you basically always keep the power levers in the detent and it'll maintain the speed.
During approach and landing yes, you need to manage the power yourself, but so what? Ideally you'd constantly be checking the speed in the 737, too

 

Both planes have a failuresystem, but the one of the NGX is a little more advanced (more failures are supported).

Now here comes the real reason why I'd recommend the Dash 8 oder the 737 at any time: The Dash 8 is shared cockpit capable so you can fly togeather with friends who also own the aircraft.
In the 737 you always have to fly alone (or use FS2Crew, which in my opinion however is a lot less intuitive than flying with a real person!).

 

As for the manuals, both are very good, but I prefer the Q400.
PMDG delivers the full set of manual of the real 737, however do you want to read 3000 pages? Also keep in mind you can easily download the real Q400 manuals from smartcockpit.com.

The Q400 got the nicer tutorial flight and in the end that is how most simmers learn to fly an aircraft.

The NGX also got a very good tutorial though, so this is rather a matter of personal taste.

 

So, as a small comparison for the two planes from my point of view:
 

• Better VC textures: NGX (the Q400 got icing effects on the windows though!)
• Better VC model: Q400 (why does no one complain that the NGXses windows are about 30% to big compared with the real plane??)
• Better Exteriour: Q400
• Better Systems: Both are about equal, but the Q400 features Circuit Brakers which the NGX doesn't have (descide on your own if that's important to you)
• Better FMC: Both are equal
• Better Sounds: NGX
• Better Manuals: Both are very good, but I'd say Q400
• Better "Features": Q400 (Shared Cockpit)

 

And finally a few words about the features simmers seem to care about most:

 

• Weather Radar: Both feature ASN Radar
• Terrain Display: Both are very close to the real plane (but the Q400 has the nicer one in real life)
• Other Systems: Both are very detailed; of course the 737 in its nature is more complex than a Turboprop
• Handling, flying characteristics: Both are pretty awesome, but the Q400 is groundbraking with the 125Hz flight controls!
• Bugs: I'd say the 737 got some more (preparing to run after I hit the "Post" button); None got severe ones

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Folks,

 

I guess I prefer the more unique airliners - I've spent all my airliner time in the Coolsky Mad Dog and the Feelthere ERJ - even though I have them the Feelthere 170/190 just doesn't compare to the ERJ so I'd suggest skipping those... Both planes are a hoot to fly... Before these two it was the Tin Mouse B737 and Paul's incredible B727 - I do like older tin... I'm sorely tempted with the Q400 as I prefer the shorter regional hops instead of marathon sessions... I'll probably pick it up as I transition to P3D...

 

Regards,

Scott

[TurboTomato 90]

Thank everyone for your informative and very complete answers.  Also a special thanks to the folks who wrote the longer responses.  I know this took some time and thought.  What we have is some very useful info (I think) for non-pilots like me.

 

I have come up with a game plan.  I first will buy FS Commander to master creating flight plans, and to understanding SIDS, STARS, Air Routes, etc, etc.

Then I think I will buy and master the Aerosoft Airbus.  Once I get proficient with that, it will be the 737 NGX.

 

Happy Flying, PDX

 

I was going to suggest the AS Airbus as well, but it looks like you've decided - good choice!

 

Before you take the plunge with FSCommander consider having a look at some other flight planning tools - I had a quick try of FSC but found the UI pretty horrendous (though I'm sure it can do a lot). Aivlasoft EFB does a similar thing (though not as comprehensive for flight planning as FSC from what I gather), but the combo I ended up with, specifically for the AS Airbus, was PFPX and a 9€ per month subscription to Navigraph for charts and data. PFPX has a much better UI for flight planning than FSC - yes it doesn't have the STARs, SIDs etc but it has them available for selection and at that point you switch over to the Navigraph cloud charts for final programming of the FMC.

[AirbusCG 52]

For the planning point of view PFPX has them, what it doesn't have are actual charts for the procedures - but it's a flight planner and no EFB.