All in good fun ...1. The fact that I download more aircraft and scenery than I can ever hope to fly and visit.2. Wing views. Why the desperation for them? You can look out at the wing anytime you go on an airliner ... why on earth would you want to be looking at the wing from the cockpit? Surely FS is all about being at the sharp end.3. People who won't fly an aircraft if it has no VC. Miss a lot.4. Those who can only look forward to payware. Pay a lot.5. Those who, having looked forward to payware, think it's wonderful for two days, post loads of screenies and then within two more days, hate it and gripe publicly.6. Payware designers who make default planes.7. Payware designers who make other payware designers' planes.8. Designers who release aircraft with no panel. Er ... it's a flightsim, chaps.9. AI paints. Why all the detail? Perhaps some people spend all day sitting in the departure lounge or taxiing around airports; but I only see AI aircraft as specks in the distance, or when arriving or departing. My focus is on my aircraft, not gazing out of the window.10. Duelling weather payware.Got any yourself? A good start might be 1. Nerds who have nothing better to do than post threads like this in forums. ;)MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

lol

>Got any yourself? A good start might be 1. Nerds who have>nothing better to do than post threads like this in forums.>;)LOL! Been thinking that one myself as I was reading the last line :-)Great post!Comment: I think all your points are human.Addition: I think it's extremely peculiar that there are actually so many people using flight simulator and using it to such extents to add some stuff, and even when added, tune and change it to God knows how far... Count me in into this mob, though. :7

1. Flightsimmers who think all other flightsimmers use the sim exactly as they do. :-)Cheers,Todd

Hmmm (all in good fun Mark)1. How I still see addons for FS98 and 2000, especially scenery2. What's a wing view? I want a backseat view3. How people complain about how I don't fly an aircraft that doesn't have a VC, LOL4. People that don't appreciate of understand what goes into designing an FS aircraft, free or pay.5. Those that spend a ton of money on advanced payware thinking it will transform their sim into something they think they are lacking.6. Payware designers that use default gauges.7. Payware designers that will be buddy buddy with another payware designer and then do the same aircraft.8. designers that still include 2d panels9. Why there are not more vehicles in Fs to where I can drive around the airport looking at my lovely detailed AI paints.10. DITTO!!!11. Why I spend to much time in this forum when I have designing to do, LOL Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

Great listI plead guilty to #1, #4 & #9.But not to #5. If I'm foolish enough to buy something when it first comes out rather than doing research - I try to keep my stupidity to myself.

>2. Wing views. Why the desperation for them? You can look>out at the wing anytime you go on an airliner ... why on earth>would you want to be looking at the wing from the cockpit? >Surely FS is all about being at the sharp end.My thoughts exactly. I use the sim to pretend to be a pilot, not be a passenger. If I want to watch the flaps and alerons work, I go to spot view (or if I'm in a light plane the pilot's view generally is the wing view :-lol).>3. People who won't fly an aircraft if it has no VC. Miss a>lot.I have no real beef with the 2D panel. Some planes have such detailed VCs that it brings my sim to a crawl so I need te 2D to fly it.>5. Those who, having looked forward to payware, think it's>wonderful for two days, post loads of screenies and then>within two more days, hate it and gripe publicly.If there was a feasible, practical way to do demos, it might diminish this some. I doubt there is a practical way though or it probably would have already happened.>6. Payware designers who make default planes.Someone's gotta beef up the detail and take time on them.>7. Payware designers who make other payware designers'>planes.Competition is the surest way to see a product with more features, detail, and accuracy to make their version seem better.>8. Designers who release aircraft with no panel. Er ... it's>a flightsim, chaps.Have to agree that that one kinda gets to me too. I can fly a plane without instruments, just not that precisely. :-lol>9. AI paints. Why all the detail? Perhaps some people spend>all day sitting in the departure lounge or taxiing around>airports; but I only see AI aircraft as specks in the>distance, or when arriving or departing. My focus is on my>aircraft, not gazing out of the window.I do both as I would in the real-world. Fly the aircraft and look outside to check for aircraft. I can spot atleast some of the colors and know what airlines it might be so when "Alaska ####" calls in you know generally where he is. Unfortunately, FS ATC is limited so you can't get the mental picture of where aircraft are in the airspace like you can in the real-world.>10. Duelling weather payware.Same as my thoughts on Number 7.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

1:people that tell other people mr x's design misses the third flapfairinhinge rivet on the right wing next to the wingbox and therefore cannot be right.2:people that tell other people to use the search function even though they know the answer.3:designers that design virtual cabins....helleu...i'm in a flightsimulator,i want a cockpit!4:people that think every plane should fly completely level at cruise altitude.5:the box that pops up after you hit control + c...no,i don't want to exit,that's why i pushed that key combination(yes i know i can swith "prompt on exit" off...i just like griping about it ;) )6: opening doors...who needs 'm?it's not like i have to load my DC8 first :-?8:photorealistic paints...why not look at a picture then instead?9:frame rate counter...the single cause of lotsa domestic violence aimed at computers.10:the clock...everytime i look at it another day of my life has passed,whilst i was preparing the third hinge for the flapfairing,or something similarly trivial.cheersJP.

Just 1: The fact that I am addicted to the bl$#@y thing despite that it is utterly irrelevant to my lifestyle and profession. As a result I sometimes feel like I partake in an apocryphal fraternity whose secrets are not to be revealed to outsiders. Wait, who am I kidding? Outsiders wouldn't care less...been there, seen the perplexed looks on faces when flight simulation comes up as a favourite pastime...

that's it :-samurai - i usually just go about my business but i have to say this once and for all... :)>... why on earth would you want to be looking at the wing from the >cockpit?Mark - I WISH people with your perpective would STOP SAYING THAT - we who like wingviews are well aware that they cannot, or can barely be seen from the cockpit of most large jets. We like to hit a key combination and be pretend PAX, not pretend pilots. If MS and any number of free and payware developers felt that flight simulation was only about up front, then we'd have aircraft systems up the wazoo by now, rather than great looking weather, scenery, landclass, mesh, etc etcI'll never forget the comments of a 744 FO upon watching a wv perspective flightlevel350 video. Watching He was blown away seeing/hearing how the 744's control surfaces, wings engines respond to up front commands. Go figure - he's a pilot of many years but never 'saw' this.The better fs can simulate this from the inside, the better many of us like it. If you don't get it, ahem...:-violin the magic of looking out the window, watching the flexing wings and engines gracefully powering their way thru dense cloud on a bumpy approach, lesser mortals on the landclass below looking up at YOUR aircraft, all the while knowing that you need to get back to the cockpit because YOU are flying this magnificent machine...then you don't, and that's fine but please - give us a break, after all when we fire up fs we're ALL pretending :-waveregards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

I dunno about the whole demo thing, but, how 'bout these ideas:1. Release the front left corner of the airplane.I'm a big fan of flying VC and like to see how realistic the modeling is -2. Set up a 3D model on the website like the car manufacturers do so you can see what the plane looks like inside and out, and point out the buttons that work and don't work in the VC. You can even put on different paints to try on like that car search website commercial (can't remember the name at the moment).I realize that a big portion of demoing a product is seeing how it performs on your machine, so:3. Talk a friend into buying it and then try out his :-)Hey, my ex-wife's father was able to talk his sister into buying a car even though she didn't have license.Thomas

The thing I found out is that I'm in the company of some very "PECULIAR" people.Its infectious,I think I too am becoming "PECULIAR" also.We may not be a band of brothers,anonymity does that,but we may be rather a "GAGGLE of disconnected individuals.Why ,I ask would most of us rather befriend this "BUSY BOX", for hours,days,even years??The fantasy ,and make believe world of "SIMULATION", is just that,not real!!.Now if that prompts any one to go to an airport, get a lesson,experience the Unsimulated feelings of flight, then its worth it.It may be cheaper than this. For many, simulation is all that may be left ,thats OK.I do hope however it really does get you to your local FBO,and "GO FLYING" really,that is. "HAVE FUN" VIN,AKA "peculiar!":-eek

>>... why on earth would you want to be looking at the wing>from the >cockpit?>>Mark - I WISH people with your perpective would STOP SAYING>THAT - we who like wingviews are well aware that they cannot,>or can barely be seen from the cockpit of most large jets. We>like to hit a key combination and be pretend PAX, not pretend>pilots. If MS and any number of free and payware developers>felt that flight simulation was only about up front, then we'd>have aircraft systems up the wazoo by now, rather than great>looking weather, scenery, landclass, mesh, etc etc>I get a kick out of the notion of "cockpit only" flying myself. It's like Gee whiz........, will it be anymore REAL, if I just pretend to stay in the cockpit? :D Heck, I always request a window seat on a passenger airliner to look at the wing mechanics. I've been with the Experimental Aircraft Association for years and driven thousands of rivets, and don't mind seeing them simulated. The reason I got a pilots license is to view the scenery of the Mtn. West from lower altitudes. And not to mention, I've flown plenty of formation, where spot view of the other airplanes is reality!IMO-- to just fly cockpit instruments & not bothering to look out the window, is about as fun as sitting in a dark cardboard box & making airplane sounds...L.Adamson

>IMO-- to just fly cockpit instruments & not bothering to look>out the window, is about as fun as sitting in a dark cardboard>box & making airplane sounds...Agreed, totally (excepting IFR training procedures) ... as you know, I spend most of my sim time low and slow with propliners of the past. That said, would you - or do you - really want to see wing views when looking to the right and left from a 2D cockpit? That's what my point was all about, as this seems to be oft requested.Have wing views from a 3D cabin, sure, and preferably even warm and friendly stewardesses - but from the cockpit? Sorry, that just kills it for me.Mark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

...>>Agreed, totally (excepting IFR training procedures) ... as you>know, I spend most of my sim time low and slow with propliners>of the past. That said, would you - or do you - really want>to see wing views when looking to the right and left from a 2D>cockpit? That's what my point was all about, as this seems to>be oft requested.>I was born shortly after WWII, and often went to the local airfield with my father who learned to fly in Stearmans, and also owned a BT13. Because of this introduction to aircraft at an early age, I also enjoy simulated renditions of WWII & propliner aircraft, more than others. That's what I love about flight simulation, is the fact that these models can be recreated with such fidelity, such as the MAAM models.As to wing views, if you can't really see them from a 2D cockpit, without looking out a window to the rear, then I suppose not. But I have to admit that a simulated P-38 Lightning with both prop arcs visiable in VC mode, and sound turned up, is a lot of fun!And NOW, the big question......As pilot of a B-29, could you, or could you not, see the wings & engines from the cockpit's left pilot seat without too much trouble. Have been wondering for years, and didn't think about it, when I once sat in the pilot's seat.L.Adamson