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sidh

PMDG 787 Dreamliner

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Hello PMDG ,

 

First of all I would like to wish you all the best for the upcoming 747 V2. Which I am sure will be a blast!

 

However,

I am really really anticipated for PMDG 787 Dreamliner ! It will be my dream come true to see the product from PMDG itself!

 

Is this aircraft considered for further development after V2 or DC6?

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You will either need US$225+ million or you can look into another developer's project. Concerning the latter, it doesn't necessarily mean PMDG won't do it (e.g. their upcoming 747v2 will come out alongside a fairly-recent competitor's product) but barring any official statement from PMDG in either direction, I feel it's worth pointing out so that you at least know something is in the works. There has also been a much more basic rendition of the 787 that was released as payware some time ago but I can't say I have any experience with it. GIYF.

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Given how 787's flight deck integrated many feature of what one would normally call an EFB with all the data involved, and PMDG's known attention to detail, I do not think that's about to happen anytime soon. Even though it would be downright beautiful if it ever does.

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PMDG is giving us the best you can get. But they have their hands full with what they're good at.

 

QualityWings has the Dreamliner in development since several years. Keep an eye on their (public?) Facebook page or pay them a visit on their site.

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PMDG is giving us the best you can get. But they have their hands full with what they're good at.

 

QualityWings has the Dreamliner in development since several years. Keep an eye on their (public?) Facebook page or pay them a visit on their site.

 

PMDG is giving us the best you can get. But they have their hands full with what they're good at.

 

QualityWings has the Dreamliner in development since several years. Keep an eye on their (public?) Facebook page or pay them a visit on their site.

 

 

So does that mean that in future if all the boeing planes start to come with EFBs(which indeed will happen) than PMDG will not develop it? Just because it is all on glass and impossible to code within limits?

Edited by sidh

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So does that mean that in future if all the boeing planes start to come with EFBs(which indeed will happen) than PMDG will not develop it? Just because it is all on glass and impossible to code within limits?

 

 

It probably means not to expect it within the next few years. I'm sure that they would have to start from scratch and for them to develop one to their standards. If I had to guess, this would probably take 3-5 years from start to finish. The QW 787 is your best bet. 

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 Just because it is all on glass and impossible to code within limits?

 

Full names in the forum, please.

 

More because an EFB requires data that costs A LOT to license. Not only can charts be incredibly expensive, the performance data licensing costs quite a bit, too. Without those, the feature is worthless.

 

Unlike services like Navigraph, which keeps you up to date with the current AIRAC, there aren't many services that offer worldwide coverage for charting at a reasonable price. Last I checked, worldwide coverage from one provider for a year was something along the lines of $2000 (per person, per year - again, not including perf data). Even without worldwide coverage, it's still outside the realm of the normal simmer budget. I think Aivlasoft comes close, but at somewhat of a compromise in that they don't use an official ANSP for their charts (at least from what I can tell).

 

Beyond that, of course, there's the performance data issue to address.

 

RSR discusses some of it here (at 14:30):

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Full names in the forum, please.

 

More because an EFB requires data that costs A LOT to license. Not only can charts be incredibly expensive, the performance data licensing costs quite a bit, too. Without those, the feature is worthless.

 

Unlike services like Navigraph, which keeps you up to date with the current AIRAC, there aren't many services that offer worldwide coverage for charting at a reasonable price. Last I checked, worldwide coverage from one provider for a year was something along the lines of $2000 (per person, per year - again, not including perf data). Even without worldwide coverage, it's still outside the realm of the normal simmer budget. I think Aivlasoft comes close, but at somewhat of a compromise in that they don't use an official ANSP for their charts (at least from what I can tell).

 

Beyond that, of course, there's the performance data issue to address.

 

RSR discusses some of it here (at 14:30):

Why cant they just do what CS did and make it so we can enter our own charts and maybe people who make liveries can supply the paints with charts that the real world aircraft normally flies into. Is it reall necessary to have fully up to date charts via subscription? Just have the performance data part of it fully modeled I dont think anyone would complain.

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Time is the key to it. WHY?

Let us make here a situation..

 PMDGs last product in line will be the 777 ,747V2 and DC-6. What After that ?NO more development?

They don't have any new aircrafts to make(May be they complete the past boeings like 767s/757s)   & the new ones cannot be made due to these limits.

Nobody would want utmost company like PMDG to close.. They are the reason why people do Hardcore simming

 

I remember the times when features that were said impossible 5-6 years ago are now made possible.Example totally a different FBW systems working independently,ENGs  ,WXR. working independently outside FSX.

Where there is a will, there will be a way.

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Time is the key to it. WHY?

Let us make here a situation..

 PMDGs last product in line will be the 777 ,747V2 and DC-6. What After that ?NO more development?

They don't have any new aircrafts to make(May be they complete the past boeings like 767s/757s)   & the new ones cannot be made due to these limits.

Nobody would want utmost company like PMDG to close.. They are the reason why people do Hardcore simming

 

I remember the times when features that were said impossible 5-6 years ago are now made possible.Example totally a different FBW systems working independently,ENGs  ,WXR. working independently outside FSX.

Where there is a will, there will be a way.

I took the time to answer your question earlier. Please take the time to read it fully.

 

This isn't a technical issue. It's a cost issue.

 

Full names. Final warning.

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There is a way round this Efb issue but it would have to be optional for users in the same way wx radar is optional. Not having asn means no wx radar but doesn't stop you from flying the ng.

 

In the same vein you could allow users who have navigraph subscriptions to use efb features. Obviously you would need interfacing between the in cockpit features and the users navigraph software but maybe it could be done.

Wishful thinking I know and there might be more licensing issues involved as navigraph might not want direct access to their chart software but I'm just pointing out that there is a possible solution that doesn't require developers to license and supply built in charts. 9 euros a month for a permanently up to date supply of charts and airac data is a good deal I think.

 

Chris

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Come on guys-- we all know PMDG could make a pogo stick and you would buy it..

Also, surley some of you more seasoned guys remember a company called Airsimmer?? Most of that team works for FSLAbs now..

 

Until this 787 get delivered...lets not count our chicken until they hatch

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More because an EFB requires data that costs A LOT to license. Not only can charts be incredibly expensive, the performance data licensing costs quite a bit, too. Without those, the feature is worthless.

 

PMDG used to say that there would hardly be a weather radar in their aircrafts due to the fact that it couldn't be acurately simulated in FSX. Then HiFi came along with Active Sky Next, the two companies partenered and now all current generation of PMDG planes have Wx radar. Couldn't you do the same in order to provide an EFB? Couldn't PMDG eventually develop an EFB expansion pack that could be integrated with Navigraph Charts and TOPCAT?

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PMDG used to say that there would hardly be a weather radar in their aircrafts due to the fact that it couldn't be acurately simulated in FSX. Then HiFi came along with Active Sky Next, the two companies partenered and now all current generation of PMDG planes have Wx radar. Couldn't you do the same in order to provide an EFB? Couldn't PMDG eventually develop an EFB expansion pack that could be integrated with Navigraph Charts and TOPCAT?

 

I feel like people aren't reading what I'm writing here...

 

Weather radar, FBW, and other technically tough items are a completely different ballgame versus something that is monetarily tough. This is what I keep reiterating, but it seems I'm not getting through to people.

 

The data on an EFB, in order to be realistic, requires both nav data and perf data. That combined costs A LOT of money. Yes, even without the charts. So, something will need to be worked out if it's ever going to happen, but I keep chiming in here because people keep thinking this is a technical issue, and it's really not. It's not that hard to get the sim to display external data. That's essentially what the weather radar is doing with ASN. It's not a new thing to make something in the sim do calculations. That's what the FMC is already doing.

 

I get that the usual scapegoat is "the limitations of the sim [insert feature that can't happen here]," but as I've mentioned in the last few posts, this isn't the case here.

 

This is a licensing and a cost issue for each and every person who wants to have such a feature. In order to make this palatable for a sim market, more research and discussion needs to occur.

 

The problem with simming is that increasing realism requires the use of real world resources. The problem here is that those real world resources have to shield themselves against potential liability, which is part of the reason some of their products cost so much. When it comes to flying in the real world, you either accept the cost personally, or your operator pays for it. Despite the progress that's been made over the years, the sim community really isn't at the point where we have fostered the closest relationships with real world entities to the point where things are more palatable for the sim crowd. To me, $75 a year for a chart management interface (yes, management interface, the charts are actually free here in the States through the FAA site, or sites like AirNav.com) isn't a huge deal when I'm routinely paying $150 per hour for a plane. For many others, $75 is a big deal, and again, that's only US charts. Never mind the rest of the world, and the performance data.

 

Not trying to kill optimism here. I'm simply trying to convey how difficult this avenue is going to be. It's not just a situation where someone needs to be technically innovative.

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I feel like people aren't reading what I'm writing here...

 

It's not a feeling it's the truth. For some reason when it comes to prices and licensing costs, many fail to grasp the costs involved and just chalk it up to greed or in some cases just a technical issue.

 

Sean Campbell

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If the go ahead was given by PMDG, and they started tomorrow, it would take years before it was available for us to use. During this time of development you will see the release of the Aerosoft A330 and possibly the A350 to follow, Prepar3D will be at v4+ Orbx FTX will have the whole world in regions not just Global Base. Not just around the corner will be the Airbus Neo, with the 737 MAX just released. Boeing will be developing the 797. And finally, Global warming would have exceeded 2 deg C.

 

If a 787 Dreamliner were to be released for Prepar3D, I think the start date has way passed.

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If the go ahead was given by PMDG, and they started tomorrow, it would take years before it was available for us to use. During this time of development you will see the release of the Aerosoft A330 and possibly the A350 to follow, Prepar3D will be at v4+ Orbx FTX will have the whole world in regions not just Global Base. Not just around the corner will be the Airbus Neo, with the 737 MAX just released. Boeing will be developing the 797. And finally, Global warming would have exceeded 2 deg C.

 

If a 787 Dreamliner were to be released for Prepar3D, I think the start date has way passed.

Yes, because 747s and DC-6s just came out, right..? :rolleyes:

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I feel like people aren't reading what I'm writing here...

 

I understood what you said about licencing costs, but I admit I was still under the impression that there was largely a technical issue involved, because that's what I remember from older discussions about this topic. In my defence, I fail to see why an EFB with data from these two providers I mentioned would be insuficient to provide a (close to) realistic representation of the actual system. I'll then assume that I am just underestimating or totally unaware of the actual complexity of a real EFB and the amout of information required to make it work properly. Sorry if I made you repeat yourself.

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Aivlasoft rebuilds arrival, approach and departure chart from the same Navigraph/NavDataPro data that we know, and ground chart from FSX itself, including whatever airport scenery you may had. Much of the time this is adequate for simulation but some data are missing, like minimum safe altitude, minimum enroute altitude/minimum obstacle clearance altitude, airspace data, a textual description of procedures and expected clearances, detailed terrain and obstacle info, and varied approach minimum for different categories.

 

After all, it is rebuilt from the same data you had in your FMC with the same limitations...Still good for simulation use, nonetheless!

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Or a 737-200Adv with full-cream steam gauges. If newer ones aren't possible, older ones certainly are!

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Or a 737-200Adv with full-cream steam gauges. If newer ones aren't possible, older ones certainly are!

Exactly , we will be left with those options only.. but That will also be impractical I am sure..

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