Reinstalled X-Plane on Linux. Working addons?

[benrussell 20]

Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

[JonRD463 146]

Okay, been flying around in the FF 757 for a bit. So far so good.

 

On the small userbase of Linux: I totally get that a small user base is not a priority. I myself am a new user to Linux, so up until recently, I didn't have an opinion one way or another about it. Now that I've crossed over, I can understand the passion this small userbase has for the OS. For a long time, Linux held its position as an OS for ubernerds (said affectionatly, of course) who were willing to tinker with obscure settings in a totally foreign command-line environment for enjoyment that the general computer using public at large could only nod half-heartedly say "Yeah... cool... okay..." before going back to the comfortable environs of a Windows or Mac desktop.

 

I was oblivious to it all. I never really had a desire to tinker with it, until I was chatting with some folks in the Kerbal Space Program community. That's a game that I've been heavily playing over the last year and a half or so, and like FS, it has a large, active, and lively addon community. The game is made with the Unity platform, and it begins to bulge at the seams when you add in a bunch of mods. It was suggested to me that the 64 bit Linux version was much more sturdy, used all available RAM, and ran more smoothly than the 32 bit Windows version. It was suggested to me to try the Mint distro when I expressed my concerns that Linux might mean a level of fiddling and tinkering that I wasn't ready to do. I tried it and not only was it absolutely painless to set up, I found that I kept using it for general tasks like web browsing, document writing, media watching, etc. I've got Windows set up for dual boot, but rarely use it.

 

I am by no means a Linux fanatic or super user (except when I have to SUDO something ). It just works, and I'm a happy camper.

 

Now enter X-Plane. I knew that it was supported on Linux, and the last time I was X-Planing in Windows, I'd modded the sim to the point that it was juuust on the side of playable with barely enough FPS to not kill the experience. I wondered if I would see the same performance increase in Linux that I saw with Kerbal. I installed, maxxed out just about all of the rendering settings, and found that stock game ran buttery smooth, looking practically identical to the view out my window on the recent flight I took that inspired me to reinstall X-Plane in the first place. I had a huge framerate overhead and wanted to start filling it with all the addons I'd previously purchased, like SkyMaxx Pro, the LES DC3, the Flight Factor and JARDesign birds, etc.

 

I started with SkyMaxx, since I wanted to get the simming environment set up before adding in new aircraft, and I'd been getting the emails about the upgrade. I went to X-Aviation and checked the forums for information regarding Linux compatibility. I'm the type of person who figures that any question I may have has probably already been asked before, so I do thorough searching before I resort to asking things myself. What I found blew my mind.

 

Now, Cameron and Ben, since you both have replied to this post, I'd like to address you directly. As I said, I understand that the Linux userbase is small and that for business reasons, you choose not to support it due to a poor ROI on time spent vs. income gained. Completely understandable. What I can't possibly fathom is how a relatively small company who relies on every sale to keep going would allow the kind of attitude I've seen on the forums. People are going to ask questions, and sometimes people can be annoying. Welcome to the world of customer service! I did my time in retail and if I ever displayed the sort of snark and disdain I've seen come from Ben to Linux users in my job at the time, I'd get disciplined so fast it wouldn't even begin to be funny.

 

It's extremely off-putting, so much so that as I consider whether or not to install X-Plane on my Windows partition to use those plugins, and addons that aren't Linux compatible, I will not factor any of my previous X-Aviation purchases into the decision making, nor will I make any future purchases of anything that uses Gizmo until you reign in the attitude. Many entertainment software companies that have a heavy online presence already know the wisdom of keeping those deficient in the way of interpersonal relations out of the public eye and letting those who are more adept handle the community stuff. Perhaps you, Cameron, should assume the role of spokesperson and let Ben happily code offline. You know, when I was last active in simming, one of the more ubiquitous things in the X-Plane community-- including the one at X-Pilot-- was the commiserating about the nastiness of some of the moderators at the .Org. I honestly cannot tell the difference between some of the more nasty posts they've made over the years and some of the spew coming out of Ben with regard to Linux support for Gizmo.

 

To everyone else who has replied, I thank you for your suggestions, tips, and advice. I'm slowly working my way towards getting things set up. The 757 is working great. I'm now starting the process of getting W2XP sceneries and the HD mesh installed. It looks like I'll have a fairly good running build in due time.

[airlinejets 709]

Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

My, you're getting awful close to cancelling Mac support.

[JonRD463 146]

Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

[deleted] Not worth it.

[Cameron XA 272]

My, you're getting awful close to cancelling Mac support.

 

And awfully far from supporting Linux.  :wink:

 

Now, Cameron and Ben, since you both have replied to this post, I'd like to address you directly. As I said, I understand that the Linux userbase is small and that for business reasons, you choose not to support it due to a poor ROI on time spent vs. income gained. Completely understandable. What I can't possibly fathom is how a relatively small company who relies on every sale to keep going would allow the kind of attitude I've seen on the forums. People are going to ask questions, and sometimes people can be annoying. Welcome to the world of customer service! I did my time in retail and if I ever displayed the sort of snark and disdain I've seen come from Ben to Linux users in my job at the time, I'd get disciplined so fast it wouldn't even begin to be funny.

 

Jon,

 

I think I was pretty darned fair in my one and only reply in this thread. Linux becomes a heated discussion out of frustration, both for Ben and I (and many other devs for that matter). I get that people are passionate about their choices and platforms. It's the attitude some of these folks have had over the years that has ultimately built up to a defensive comeback from folks like Ben and even myself. If you really care to understand this better, I think Tom Kyler explains it perfectly well here (sorry for the link to X-Pilot, Tony, but I find it prudent and relevant for this discussion).

 

 

 

Perhaps you, Cameron, should assume the role of spokesperson and let Ben happily code offline.

 

I think you don't understand the relationship between Ben and X-Aviation. He does not work "for me", and has his own company under the banner of X-Plugins. Technically, developers are customers of him. He creates an extremely powerful platform which is consistently maintained and has allowed developers like IXEG to do things we have not yet seen in X-Plane (but soon will).

 

You may not agree with Ben's brash approach, but he is right in many ways. I can sympathize with his frustrations as someone who's been in the payware market as long as we both have. Sometimes customers just don't see what we do. Linux is one of those instances. This topic hasn't always been hostile, but it's certainly evolved that way. If only you could see all the poo flinging we receive behind the scenes from various Linux users, maybe then would you begin to truly understand. There have been some truly comical yet horrendous words received by a number of these users.

[JonRD463 146]

 

And awfully far from supporting Linux.  :wink:

 

 

Jon,

 

I think I was pretty darned fair in my one and only reply in this thread. Linux becomes a heated discussion out of frustration, both for Ben and I (and many other devs for that matter). I get that people are passionate about their choices and platforms. It's the attitude some of these folks have had over the years that has ultimately built up to a defensive comeback from folks like Ben and even myself. If you really care to understand this better, I think Tom Kyler explains it perfectly well here (sorry for the link to X-Pilot, Tony, but I find it prudent and relevant for this discussion).

 

 

 

 

I think you don't understand the relationship between Ben and X-Aviation. He does not work "for me", and has his own company under the banner of X-Plugins. Technically, developers are customers of him. He creates an extremely powerful platform which is consistently maintained and has allowed developers like IXEG to do things we have not yet seen in X-Plane (but soon will).

 

You may not agree with Ben's brash approach, but he is right in many ways. I can sympathize with his frustrations as someone who's been in the payware market as long as we both have. Sometimes customers just don't see what we do. Linux is one of those instances. This topic hasn't always been hostile, but it's certainly evolved that way. If only you could see all the poo flinging we receive behind the scenes from various Linux users, maybe then would you begin to truly understand. There have been some truly comical yet horrendous words received by a number of these users.

 

Cameron, I appreciate your reply. Like I said before, I understand the reasons for not supporting Linux, and it's certainly not my intention to demand it where it makes little sense. I also understand that people online can be nasty, given the relative anonymity and zero chance of getting their teeth knocked out for the kinds of garbage that's said.

 

My main point is about representation and perception. You say Ben Russell isn't an employee of X-Aviation, but given that Gizmo is the plugin of choice for managing X-Aviation products, one could easily assume everything is part and parcel. Unless and until X-Aviation products utilize a different plugin to manage DRM, I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

As long as X-Plane supports Linux, there are going to be those asking for support. Few as they are, and as nasty as they may get, just state your case for not supporting and leave it at that. Ignore the vitriol, and for heaven's sake, don't contribute to it. It just makes makes you look bad. I use "you" here in general terms for anyone in this position, and not pointedly at you, Cameron.

 

The bottom line is, X-Aviation doesn't support Linux for their products for valid business reasons. Understood, loud and clear, and there will be no whining from me about that fact. Just keep in mind that many folks' perception is their reality, and if it's perceived that a representative of X-Aviation deals with a volatile public by echoing their own vitriol, X-Aviation as a whole can be perceived as vitriolic.

 

That's all I have to say on that particular subject.

 

As for the subject of the thread at large, I'm reeaally enjoying the performance I'm getting after installing a number of sceneries and aircraft. The general graphical quality looks even better than my previous Windows install on the same hardware. It's crisp, and the depth perception really pops. Love it!

[Cameron XA 272]

one could easily assume everything is part and parcel.

 

One may assume, but my response is merely an attempt to clear the air and bring you "on page". That said, if someone wants to associate Gizmo to XA, that's fair and acceptable. In the end I don't mind so long as you understand the underlying "web."

 

 

 

I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

Many people didn't like Steve Jobs either. Notoriously a jackass (even to customers in e-mails). Oh well. You can't please everybody. He knew that, I know that, and I'm sure you know that. Your personality and way of handling things is simply different. As you've said, perception is reality, and that applies even to you.  :wink:

 

 

 

Just keep in mind that many folks' perception is their reality, and if it's perceived that a representative of X-Aviation deals with a volatile public by echoing their own vitriol, X-Aviation as a whole can be perceived as vitriolic.

 

My response to this is the same as above. In the end, the products will do the talking. What you want to debate in-between it all is of little concern to me. I'll respond, and that's all there is to it. I do appreciate you coming in here to give your $0.02 of business sense though. We won't always agree, and that's quite alright!

 

 

Unless and until X-Aviation products utilize a different plugin to manage DRM, I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

Just so we're very clear, Gizmo (Ben's product), is much more than DRM. I may be Ben's customer for that segment, but many developers (including IXEG and Leading Edge Simulations) depend on Ben's product to create the entire add-on(s) they are working on. Systems, screens, everything. It is NOT a DRM utility in any way, shape or form. Such functionality has been added to it, but it is far from the purpose. Thus, again, Ben does not work "for me".

[benrussell 20]

For the record; the number of users now actively complaining that Linux support has been dropped is now three. Three people.

[GoranM 3,764]

Any good programmer will target crossplatform right from the beginning.

 

Do you really want to go there, Mike?

[JonRD463 146]

For the record; the number of users now actively complaining that Linux support has been dropped is now three. Three people.

 

Okay?

[Cameron XA 272]

Okay?

Jon,

 

In your own words: "Ignore the vitriol, and for heaven's sake, don't contribute to it."

 

 

 

Let it go, guys. All that's needed to be said has been said.

[CyberMike 18]

In my plugin, after using native paths, my c++ code differs between Mac and Linux by only ~6 codelines out of ~10'000.-

 

I don't care if you're not supporting Linux, but at least it should be visible. Probably some Texas guy will sooner or later sue

you for wasting his time.

[benrussell 20]

In my plugin, after using native paths, my c++ code differs between Mac and Linux by only ~6 codelines out of ~10'000.-

 

It's not a technical problem. It's a time problem.

 

 

Can we get back on topic and help the OP find some Linux content options?

[CyberMike 18]

Easy, anything except x-aviation stuff. (and maybe jardesign?)

[GoranM 3,764]

Easy, anything except x-aviation stuff. (and maybe jardesign?)

 

Maybe?  It's either compatible or it isn't.

Oh, and I almost forgot.  I actually made some products that are compatible with all 3 platforms.  Just a friendly FYI.