That's the point. You enter the appropiate STAR, but it won't take you to the Rwy, it will just get you close to the airport. Normally the procedure is the STAR (arrival) + the Approach. The STAR is general to any Rwy, the approach will take you from the last generic wp of the STAR to the selected Rwy. The PMDG 737/744 or LDS767 will select the STAR and when you choose the Rwy it will also select the Approach. The Lago just selects the STAR, and you are on your own from the last wp to the Rwy. If you fly online and you have ATC, ATC will take you to the Rwy, otherwise, good luck...Other than that, I forgot to add, the STARs have restriction altitudes, never acknowledged by the Lago.If the Lago was $15 I would say go for it. As it is over $40 I think it is totally unworthy for that price. The PSS airbuses are at $13 and the FMC works perfectly well.I know about LP panel and it is a shame the FMC thing. Like I said before I use the RXP GNS530 + JL4 that replace the FMC pretty well. At some moment RXP will also release a FMC and that will make my Aldus MD80 100% perfect.Leo

Hi,A few observations:>VNAV: absolutely unusable at descent. I could give you many>reasons why, but the final point is that it is unusable.I don't know, I don't find it absolutely unusable. It seems that the root of the problem is that the TOD is incorrectly calculated. The airplane starts down too early, and winds up below the VNAV PATH. But the idle power 2500-3000fpm descent is the correct profile. I'm not sure why everyone thinks that VNAV descents are made at 1000fpm with the throttles at mid-range...? The only time you do that is if ATC tells you to descend, but to cross an intersection "at or above" a certain altitude.>Navigation: The approaches are totally bad configured.>Normally the procedure will leave you at the last point before>the final approach start. For example if you are coming to>land in KDFW from the South, but you have to use any of the>Rwys 17s or 18s, the last wp in the FP will be many miles to>the South and you will have to figure yourself how to get to>the North and do the approach. I always ended up using FSNAV>and adding the wps by hand.Ok. The procedure files were supposed to be 100% compatible with PMDG, but they're not. That said, after running the fix, I have had no problems. All of my DPs, STARs, and Transitions work just fine.>Bad FDEs: If you have ASV with vertical winds enabled, the>effect of an upwards or downwards current is totally>irrealistic. If real ACs did like the Lago does, nobody would>be able to leave the sits while flying or they would hit the>ceiling with their heads ever time you have that type of>turbulence.I don't use ASV, so I can't verify that. However, I don;t think its fair to blast the Maddog just because ASV doesn't play nice with it. The Maddog wasn't designed around ASV or any other addon, and its unfair fault the Maddog for that.>Autoland: unusableYeah, it overshoots the initial turn to final...even with a 20deg intercept angle, but it quickly recaptures the LOC. GS tracking is phenominal, and I'll be darned! the thing actually tries to keep the centerline after landing. Just make sure you configure the jet early, don't make the turn to final inside the marker, and you'll be fine. Works great here!>Bugs that keep appearing: >>- A few times VNAV doesn't even work to climbNo trouble here. Proper procedure is a must, else things start not to work...just like the real jet.>- Sometimes the speed gets stuck at 220 Knots on final. When>you disengage the AT and low down the speed to 140 Knts it>becomes extremely difficult to control de elevator trim and>you have to descend pulling the yoke to the max, and even in>that case it is not unusual that you end up smashing yourself>against the Rwy.Never had that happen. Choosing the correct level of automation is key here. Don't the the FMS drive you into the ground at 220kt in a VNAV descent. Thats what the FGCP is for, use HDG, VS, etc, and fly the airplane.>To end, support is inexistent.Absolutely! Its really sad. However, the publisher abandoned the project, NOT the developer. That's why we've seen so many Service Packs, even though LAGO has dropped the ball. Try the Jet City forums for additional help, plus you can still search the LAGO boards for previous topics.Regards,Nick

Well, basically we agree on everything, lol. The only difference is that you can live with those things and I don't. Like I said, I wouldn't be so critic if the product was $15, but at actual price is way less than I expected.The 220 Knots issue is there although it appears sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Have no idea why. I use the MCP for the final approach, but for some reason I have the problem every once in a while.Anyway, since I added the RXP gauges to the Aldus MD80 I am totally happy with it and the Lago went to the ACs cementery.Leo

Hi Jeff,Its all subjective, I guess.Truth is, the MD-82 is not a 767 or 737NG and expecting it to act like one is not realistic. Most of the "bugs" can be attributed to improper usage.That said, there are certain undeniable deficiencies in the Maddog, as there are in all products. The support issue is one. The initial difficulties with the NAV database is another, and there are others.In my opinion however, its a very realistic, highly entertaining addon. I fly it more than I fly my PMDG and LEVEL-D combined. See ya,Nick

Nick, This the long answer:As you must have seen in my other posts I have a lot of payware stuff. The VNAV works bad and you need to use the MCP to bring the plane down. This does not happen with my other addonsEven after I installed all patches, the STARs don't get you to a Rwy. There are exceptions in which they work well, but is not the general thing.Most addons have been developed without ASV (maybe the PMDG744 beta testers had the chance to use both while developing it), nevertheless the Lago is the only one that reacts to vertical turbulence the way it does. Unfortunately this is bad FDEs.Autoland: Freeware ACs do it better.VNAV climbing: It happens very few times, but it happens220 Knots: Keeps happening sometimes. Really annoyingTo add something, ASV has released a patch that eliminates the wind shear while you are in short final. Before that and due to the bad FDEs the AC was almost impossible to land with bad weather conditions.Leo

Nick,Thanks again for the detailed explanation to some of the issues brought up by other. Not sure what you mean by "Truth is, the MD-82 is not a 767 or 737NG and expecting it to act like one is not realistic" Anyhow, I might check this one out, I'm gonna look for videos first.Thanks again all,Jeff

Jeff,I meant simply that a lot of user complaints regarding the Maddog sound like this:"The PMDG 737 Autothrottles will automatically switch from TOGA to CLB, but the Maddog just stays in TOGA until I press CLB. Then it lights up and says NO MODE...THIS MUST BE A BUG!"Again, I'm not saying that its a perfect piece of software, its not. But a lot of users have been conditioned to expect that all airplanes fly and operate like a 737NG or 767. Therefor, it sometimes comes as a shock when the nuances of an older, mostly analogue airplane become apparent. The result is a lot of complaints, bug reports, and bashing.Nick

Jeff,I will make a list of my addons ACs so you can see a lot of different stuff (not to mention many good freeware too). PMDG 738PMDG 744LDS 767RFP 742CS 727FT CRJFT ERJPSS A340PSS A320ES Citation XES Beech 400Lago MD80 (booooo)Probably I am forgetting some. The point here is that every AC is a whole new world and I don't expect any AC to behave as any other, other than the quality of the product.I am not sure which addons you have. If you have none you might find the Lago a good product. If you have some like I do, you might think is a bad product. I have a bunch of friends that have as many Acs or more than I do. The only product that is being replaced in many users PC for a freeware one is the Lago MD80.If you don't mind paying the price, buy it, but now you are aware that there are simmers which are not very happy with this product.Leo

>Staffan, >>So you're saying, it's not really flyable?>>Jeff

Hi Jeff,Yes I am. It is surely not flyable as it should be. The above various posts also says that. But I guess that it is a matter of user tolerance. Because I really don

Even after I installed all patches, the STARs don't get you to a Rwy. There are exceptions in which they work well, but is not the general thing.

Well,thousands of STARs worldwide will not bring you to a runway, as they end at another waypoint way before the final - the IAF. Another intermediate procedure or vectors are needed then to intercept the final. That

"thousands of STARs worldwide will not bring you to a runway, as they end at another waypoint way before the final - the IAF. Another intermediate procedure or vectors are needed then to intercept the final. That

Leo,Hope you can be a good sport about this. ;) But that is exactly the kind of observation that i refer to further down in this thread. Why is it that, just because PMDG, LDS, or RXP works this way, you assume that its the same on an MD-80? The older type FMS found in the MD-82 is not identical to the newer FMS units found in the 737NG or 767. Its not fair to use the capabilities of the real aircraft being modelled as the basis for claiming the product is inferior. Regarding the STAR issue specifically, I don't know of any FMS that will automatically connect the last WP of a STAR to the IAF or FAF. There should always be a DISCONTINUITY. This prevents a distracted crew from letting the FMS drive the airplane through a clearance limit. (i.e. You aren't cleared for the approach yet.)Deleting the discontinuity will connect the two WP's, and this works correctly in the MD-80 as well.Nick

>>Staffan, >>>>So you're saying, it's not really flyable?>>>>Jeff>

>Hi Jeff,>>Yes I am. It is surely not flyable as it should be. The above>various posts also says that. But I guess that it is a matter>of user tolerance. Because I really don

I would say you have a point here in case it is so except that the approach phase is never loaded, with or without discontinuity. I always ended up using FSNAV to check which were the wps missing and added them one by one.Anyway, you have insisted so much that I will try it one more time to make 100% sure I prefer my mix of Aldus with RXP gauges.I say again. It is faulty, but flyes. If the price was set at $15 I would say buy it. If Lago was giving support and we knew we had an upcoming patch, I would say buy it. None of these two things are so, therefore I can only say, the bugs are there and are pretty expensive, so my suggestion to those who want to buy it is to stay away from it. Leo

Interesting thread. I also have the LAGO MD80 and while it does have some bugs, a lot of what some people think are "bugs" are really why it gets it's name "Mad Dog"- it's a real b*tch to fly sometimes. And the automatics are nowhere like the NG or the B75/76, and should not be- the MD-80 is in real life nowhere near the automated cockpit as the NG/75/76.I also have the MD-Max but while it has some very realistic systems I got sick of looking at a "PS-1" style of cockpit (only 2D, no 3D).I like the MD 8x/9x appearance more then almost any other aircraft, with it's highly catilevered forward fuselage section. Bruce.