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flynman33

Windows 10 Upgrade Or Stay......

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I updated two PCs (not running FSX) and all went smooth and overall I like W10.  But I'm still running 8.1 (I know...) on a newly built I7-4790K / GTX970 PC that is my FSX-MS (and fast general purpose) machine, I get fantastic performance BTW.  But the only reason I haven't updated yet is that I can't pause OneDrive sync while running FSX.  Does anyone else think this is an issue and how do you handle it?  I can't not use OneDrive, it's critical to how I operate on multiple machines and travelling.


[CPL]  I9-9900K @5.0GHz HT ON, Maximus XI Hero, ASUS TUF RTX4080 OC, 32GB DDR4 3200 14, 1TB NVMe SSD, 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, 40" Samsung 4K TV, Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Logitech Rudder Pedals, WIN11

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That, in turn, means that millions of PCs are owned every day by malware using bugs that were patched ages ago.

Most botnets are powered by unprotected Windows systems and that, in turn, means all of us get attacked because clueless people won't update their systems.

I agree that in some cases, forced updates in W10 are actually a really good idea (think: computer illiterate relatives that always ask for your help during the holidays with their "slow" computers!).

 

However, let's be honest. Do Microsoft's security updates really fix anything? Have you ever read the security bulletins on the TechNet website? The security updates honestly only prevent very very improbable situations, and I assume most users with common sense don't mess around with those situations that are affected. Of course, I agree that it's important to have all the latest security updates installed, but to me, these "security updates" are mostly placebo. (which is why I don't see the problem with an XP machine with all updates ever released installed, a good antivirus, and a modern web browser).

 

Now of course, in W10, I highly recommend you don't "defer upgrades", since the last major update, Version 1511 "service pack", was a great improvement to RTM.

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Ray,

 

First, hello again.

 

I've not seen, and do not believe there would be any direct improvements for running FSX/FSX:SE.  What I can tell you is that my systems (three computers thus far) and those of my teammates boot faster and run faster (one might argue "cleaner") with Windows 10 when compared to Windows 7.  I'm a former/retired computer engineer and I'm confident it's neither subjective, any type of placebo effect, or wishful thinking - the Windows side runs faster or cleaner.

 

I'm going to through one other thing out here... I held off moving to FSX Steam for a very long time, partly because of the testing commitments I had with several developers and parting because I wasn't convinced the positive Steam feedback wasn't placebo. After meeting with several developers and researching a few things, I made the move with a high degree of confidence and I for one am extremely glad that I did. The slight improvement on VAS and frame rates (both partially because of a problem Dovetail identified and corrected and how it was explained to me was with FSX the same data would in some cases be sent to two individual cores for the same processing (not load sharing, but two cores actually processing the same data). It's not snake oil, and I'm seeing a considerable increase in performance and stability.

 

I offer the info above regarding FSX Steam for those who will elect to perform a fresh install of Windows 10. 

If anyone switches to FSX:Steam after installing Windows 10, it would be great if you could report back after making several flights in hgih-end payware aircraft models as I'm sure it would be helpful to others reading this thread.

 

Everyone else:

 

To date I've upgraded (converted, if you prefer) three computers and I'm about to do another (i7 laptop, and that will leave a dual core laptop which I won't convert as there probably aren't any compatible W10 drivers for some of the components AND I'm getting ready to dump/donate it anyway.

 

I haven't had any problems whatsoever, but my systems were all kept up to date on everything from bios to drivers, C++ and Dot Net, and I don't know if the latter two really made a difference or not.  We had almost all our team members perform the conversation (some with multiple computers) and omitting one person with a dual core Pentium we had one person who had a problem running the conversation and then opted for the full install. FSX:SE is running extremely well, but it was running extremely well before the conversion. I have a substantial number of FSX Addons ranging from taxing commercial airliners from several different developers to a LOT of payware scenery and utilities.

 

CONVERSION OR INSTALLATION?

 

I certainly agree with two things... a system image before one attempts the conversation, and the fail safe (safest / best) way to do this is to download the ISO to a thumb drive or DVD and perform a clean install (with all the prerequisite drive maintenance being done first.

 

I sincerely and humbly provide this information above, gained from my own personal experience, in hopes that others may find it helpful.

 

Best of luck, and happy flights!

  • Upvote 1

Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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I did a clean Upgrade from Windows7 64-Bit Pro when I thought at first I was going to be a die-hard adamant. And the clean installation on a brand new 960Gb SSD went flawlessly. As did a fresh FSX-SE install, and a P3Dv2.5 install, and touch wood, so far no a hitch. From power button switch-on to login screen is exactly 43 seconds.

 

I'm more than happy with my Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. But every Windows OS has had its pros and cons. I know of many people who are die-hard Windows XP users,and some running Windows 98 too. They will not budge. They are happy, even if MS no longer supports their choice of OS. But hey, each to their own choice. There will always be protractors and detractors. I recall when P3D first came out. The FS2004 fan boys shot one down for advocating P3D, but now look at the uptake on P3D.

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Hi again Dave,
 

It sounds as though you do not own AES. That's the addon that adds realism to many airports. As a jet pilot AES is very important to me as I have spent £140 on it.

 

The fact that AES remains unusable with Steam or P3D is my main reason for staying with FSX:SP2. I'm not prepared to throw away that amount of money for the small but measurable improvements in Steam. Ditto for P3D even though the benefits are probably more obvious.

 

Anyway, back to W10. It probably does boot faster but unless there are clear benefits to FSX with 10 I don't see the point in switching especially as I wouldn't have a W10 installation disk. What happens x months down the road if you have a disk crash and need to reinstall Windows? You'd have to install 7 or 8 then apply the 10 update file plus lots of windows updates. Uurrgghh! I know a disk clone will negate that messy problem but I still prefer to have an installation disk for my OS.

 

You also lose XP-compatibility mode which would be important on my laptop as I have a program that requires it. Not a good move by Microsoft there.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Anyway, back to W10. It probably does boot faster but unless there are clear benefits to FSX with 10 I don't see the point in switching especially as I wouldn't have a W10 installation disk. What happens x months down the road if you have a disk crash and need to reinstall Windows? You'd have to install 7 or 8 then apply the 10 update file plus lots of windows updates. Uurrgghh! I know a disk clone will negate that messy problem but I still prefer to have an installation disk for my OS.

What?

 

MS has the ISO for Windows 10 available here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

 

Download the tool, choose "Create installation media", and then choose whether you want to create a DVD or bootable USB installation.

 

Also, you don't have to reinstall Windows 7 then upgrade again to reinstall Windows 10. Once you do the upgrade at least once and you activate Windows, your motherboard + CPU combination will be authorised, and you can reinstall however many items you want without having to do the upgrade again. This means you can also do a clean install.

 

 

 

 

You also lose XP-compatibility mode which would be important on my laptop as I have a program that requires it. Not a good move by Microsoft there.

XP compatability mode is still there...

 

post-254482-0-68241000-1452965336.png

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Ray,

 

I know of your troubles with AES, I'm on staff at Aerosoft though I don't have any information at all on AES development. I would hope however that it is updated for FSX Steam at some point.

 

I use GSX, and while it doesn't do anything for Jetways, everything else covers the bases for me.  I will be honest with you, I warned my team members about AES when it first came out regarding having to pay for airport packages and future development - sadly, I was all too correct on both counts. I suppose that goes with having been a technical program manager for most of life... lol.

 

ANYWAY... I wanted to tell you that Windows 10 operational benefits go far past boot speed and you actually can download the ISO and burn it to a DVD (so you'll have the complete Windows 10 installation disk. Better yet, you burn it to a thumb drive, which also gives you a Windows 10 installation disk.

 

I really appreciated Windows 7, and I never, not E-V-E-R jump on ANYTHING new.  I wait, watch, research, and evaluate, It drives me crazy to see some people jump on the latest version of P3D or move to Windows 10 on the day they are released only to find that their software which was never designed to work with the new flight sim does work AND THEN write posts all over the place complaining (often LOUDLY) about software developers because their software doesn't work with the latest and greatest version of Windows or P3D. 

 

Anyway, should you decide to move to Windows 10, I don't think you would regret it. If and when you're ready to I strongly recommend the following:

 

1. Create a system image (if you have the available disk space).

 

2. Download the burn the Windows 10 ISO (I'd recommend using a Thumb Drive for several different reasons - and remember that all Thumb drives are not created equal). If you feel safer, you can burn to a DVD AND Thumb Drive. You can also do this at ANYTIME.  For some reason THIS LINK isn't as easy to find as it once was, but it's the one you want to explore a little further for yourself.

 

3. Try the conversation first so you won't have to install FSX and all the addons - UNLESS you decide to move to FSX Steam (if it were me I'd say "might as well" given the situation with AES), but certainly everyone has to make that decision for themselves.

 

 

It's nice to have a conversation with you again Ray, I'm sure we'll see one another around!  Feel free to PM me here or the other website should I be able to be of further assistance to you.

  • Upvote 1

Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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Diego

 

That is absolutely brilliant. So well described, and laid out. You must be a teacher/instructor in R/L?

 

Nice work. Even though I've installed Windows 10 Pro 64-bit from my Windows 7Pro 64-bit, I was like Ray, a bit dubious about having to go through the whole rigmarole all over, again.

 

Just using your instructions to create that Media Tool.

 

Salient words, Dave. A lot of worth in them.That is why I waited until a few weeks ago to make the Upgrade and like you await 'teething issues to be resolved' before making any switch.

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Diego & Dave,

 

Thank you both for that very helpful advice. Who knows what will transpire in the months to come. That XP-Compatibility mode is definitely a surprise. Last time I read about 10 (which was a while back) that was definitely not included.

 

But you know, deep down I'm still wondering why Microsoft are giving away an OS. They've never done it before. And by nature I'm always suspicious of the free lunch. I can't help but feel there's something they're not telling us that may well come back to bite us.

 

I could be completely wrong but businesses don't usually do this unless there's a payback. Where's that conspiracy icon when you need it? :wink:


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Stay with Win7 for now unless you have an app/game that needs DX12 ... there are still a few annoying issues with Win10 (primarily around USB device support and security and a few 3rd party content didn't install correctly).  BUT, ask me the same question in 6 months from now and I may have a different response.

 

Win10 is 10% market share and growing slowly

Win7 is 55% market share and declining slowly

 

The OS really isn't much different from Win7, it does allow for >4GB video recordings via ShadowPlay, but I haven't seen any significant performance difference between the two (take that as plus or negative).

 

I should say, YES GO WITH WIN10 so as to increase market share so 3rd party hardware vendors will make it a priority to get proper working Win10 drivers ... but that's a selfish desire.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Thanks Rob, sensible advice.

 

I did some digging on why MS are giving it away and it's because they want mobile devices to use it and those are now outselling PCs.

 

I'm never an early adopter of new things preferring to wait until the rough edges have smoothed out.

 

How long is this free offer available for? LATER: Googled it and 29 July 2016 is the deadline date. I have 6 months to consider.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Thanks Rob, sensible advice.

 

I did some digging on why MS are giving it away and it's because they want mobile devices to use it and those are now outselling PCs.

I think the upgrade is free because MS wants as many people as possible to be on a platform that has access to the "Windows app Store". Since W8 had it but not W7, the offer was probably extended to W7 so that as many people as possible would be exposed to their "mobile apps" and "app store", which for some reason, MS thinks are wonderful on a desktop computer. The "app store" is rubbish and it's the first thing I always disable when setting up W10. I suppose the "mobile app world" is where MS sees their future. 

Edited by linux731

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Thanks Diego. That too will be one of the first things I disable should I go down the 10 route.

 

I think there will be enough signing up to that to make Microsoft happy.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Oh one feature of Win10 Enterprise I really don't like is Windows Defender ... I can disable it for "one session" but it will re-enable itself the next day (even tells you it will when I disable it).  So I do have more control with the Enterprise edition, but I still don't have "complete" control.

 

There are also many other items that one might want to disable -- like allowing your PC to effectively act as a torrent site for other Microsoft users -- this is just NUTS, so much for security and a great way to transmit a virus to world of users - hackers are just loving this new feature.

 

But good idea to check back in July, see what's been fixed.  I think Bill had posted those areas in Win10 you might want to disable if you do end up going this route ... on the Free version some of them can't be disabled.

 

What "I think" will change the market share numbers for desktop computers is when we see many more DX12 titles operating extremely well on moderate hardware, games/sims are a key driving force for the desktop market.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Oh one feature of Win10 Enterprise I really don't like is Windows Defender ... I can disable it for "one session" but it will re-enable itself the next day (even tells you it will when I disable it).  So I do have more control with the Enterprise edition, but I still don't have "complete" control.

 

Can't you disable Defender through Services.msc? There's two settings in there for Defender, "Windows Defender Network Inspection Service" and "Windows Defender Service". Try disabling both. Also, since you're on Enterprise, perhaps there's a setting in the GPE. Check there.

 

 

There are also many other items that one might want to disable -- like allowing your PC to effectively act as a torrent site for other Microsoft users -- this is just NUTS, so much for security and a great way to transmit a virus to world of users - hackers are just loving this new feature.

 

You're right, it's on by default. But thankfully on the new November update 1511, MS added an option during install for this, so that's good. (Make sure to click "customise settings" instead of "express settings")

 

on the Free version some of them can't be disabled.

 

 

There's no such thing as a "free" version. W10 Home and W10 Pro and W10 Enterprise are all paid OS's and you get a legitimate license when you upgrade.

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