747v2 and Panels

[Chris Knipe]

Just thought I'd chip in... I owe every single PMDG product, except for the 777... 

 

Will the new 744 (and other new products for that matter) contain 2D panels, or will it also only be VC?  Will be enormously sad if PMDG will now discontinue 2D panels on all their planes.  I simply am not going to buy an incomplete product, not containing 2D panels... 

 

I even bought EZ Doc, and I've used it for an entire 10 minutes (after it messed up basically every single view and hot key assignment I use) - sad to say.  The VC is not for me, sorry.

 

 

-

Chris.

[scandinavian13]

 

 

Will be enormously sad if PMDG will now discontinue 2D panels on all their planes.

 

It won't. The 777 didn't have them. The 737 wasn't intended to, but got some added in via a service pack for some of the panel areas. The MD-11 was the last aircraft that was supposed to, actually.

 

 

 

I even bought EZ Doc, and I've used it for an entire 10 minutes (after it messed up basically every single view and hot key assignment I use) - sad to say.  The VC is not for me, sorry.

 

Don't need EZDok. Mouse + Spacebar and a little patience for the first few flights. In most cases, I've found that it's just an issue of getting out of an old habit and into a new one.

[Chris Knipe]

Oh well...

 

Then this is the end of PMDG for me 

 

Thnx.

[warbirds]

I don't understand the need for a 2d panel. I thought most simmers wanted it as real as possible and for that you need a great VC.

 

2d panels went out years ago when I was experimenting with real virtual cockpits in early FS versions and my friend Bill Lyon's finally brought out the first VC with one of his planes.

[scandinavian13]

 

 

Then this is the end of PMDG for me 

 

If you'd give it an honest shot, I think you'd change your mind honestly. EZDok is notoriously difficult to set up and work with, so I'm betting that only made the impression worse for you. As I mentioned earlier, simply hold the spacebar and move your mouse around, and you can look around quite easily. From there, it's simply a matter of actually pretending you're a pilot, and not kinda pretending you're a pilot. Things that are tough to see in the VC - without the false, direct head-on 2D view - are about that tough to see and get to in the real plane, too.

 

From what it seems, you have the NGX. Try the VC out in there for a while by using the mouse method. No money to spend that hasn't already been spent. Nothing to lose. I promise you that after a few flights (that will, admittedly be odd and slow-going), you will not want to go back.

[Chris Knipe]

I have.  Been flying on and off with VC (various PMDG planes, incl MD11 and B737), and frankly, I hate it...  Made 2 2+Hrs flights in the 738 only using the VC too... 

 

Just sitting on the ground in the B738 playing with the WX radar now, and turning around and the need to move my head around to just be able to READ things up right... My neck is completely toast already.  

 

Things (like the seat's arm rest in the B738, Throttles, etc) constantly gets in the way, an changing your physical position in the VC is a PITA.  You need to be a rocket scientist JUST to be able to use the VC, nevermind just paying a game and enjoying yourself.  Moving around (which basically means changing your view direction / zooming in & out etc) sure - that's all nice and easy.  The moment you need to change a view point and what not... You really need to become a rocket scientist.  

 

It's just WAY to much work / moving around / etc.  

[Tavers]

I understand the attachment to the 2D panel. When I first moved to FSX I struggled with the VC, but like anything you get used to it. Now I couldn't imagine using a 2D panel. All you need is the spacebar and mouse to look around/zoom. It's awesome.

[scandinavian13]

 

 

 The moment you need to change a view point and what not... You really need to become a rocket scientist.

 

If you need the view point change, just hit 'A' a couple times. We have pre-built views to assist, where necessary, which are cycled through via the 'A' key. Three taps on the 'A' key will . If things are getting in the way (with the exception of the yoke, which is the reason you can artificially lower it if you need to), then either very odd zoom levels, or a modified default view point are being used. Honestly, two flights isn't enough to get used to something if you've been using an alternate method for years.

 

Had the AVSIM forums not crashed a few years back, you'd be able to find quite a few posts of mine vehemently supporting 2D panels and ripping the VC to shreds back in the MD-11 era. Since the JS41 - which I will openly admit that I accepted, at best, begrudgingly - I've never looked back. Getting used to tapping 'A' and using spacebar + mouse was daunting for a while, but now it's all second nature.

[JRBarrett]

I tried EZDOC once, but found it too cumbersome to set up. It would be nice if someday LM added a camera feature to P3D similar to that in X-Plane, where one can quickly and easily define a set of smooth-panning camera views on a per-aircraft basis using the numeric key pad. You set a view you like, hit CTRL + one of the numeric keys, and it's set. When you hit that numeric key again, the view smoothly pans to your preset.

 

I have a CH products throttle quadrant and use the row of 6 dual-position toggle switches for P3D VC navigation.

 

I have assigned VC eye point shift commands to the "up" position of the six switches. The first two switches are assigned to eye point left/right, the next two are for up/down, and the last two for in/out.

 

The nice thing about the latter two is that using eye point in/out to zoom into the VC does NOT affect the external zoom It's not a perfect solution, but it does allow me to move quickly around the VC relatively easily. I assigned the down position of the last switch to "eye point reset", which will quickly snap the view back to the standard pilot seat forward view.

 

And, as Kyle said, in both the NGX and 777, there are multiple pre-defined VC views available by hitting the "A" key, which IMO are every bit as easy to use as 2-D panels. You can get the entire overhead panel in one, the radio stack in the center console in another, etc.

[Chris Knipe]

If you need the view point change, just hit 'A' a couple times. We have pre-built views to assist, where necessary, which are cycled through via the 'A' key. Three taps on the 'A' key will . If things are getting in the way (with the exception of the yoke, which is the reason you can artificially lower it if you need to), then either very odd zoom levels, or a modified default view point are being used. Honestly, two flights isn't enough to get used to something if you've been using an alternate method for years.

 

 

Didn't know about 'A' - I'll give that a try.

 

I suffer from severe psoriatic arthritis, and frankly, even after I left the PC and aren't even sitting in front of the PC now for a good few hours, my neck and stuff is still sore and stiff - so more than likely not related to the constant moving around as I've thought initially.  I am / was even looking at TrackIR too, but even there still, I am not convinced that it will give me a pleasurable experience.  Perhaps I'm just weird or something.

 

Part of my problem is also that I fly with the keyboard.  No yoke and/or external controls.  I've never had the reason for it, and frankly, I am not a committed enough simmer to invest in it.  So flying with the keyboard, and the VC (esp. with Ez Doc basically changing all the key binds on the num pad) is also a big part of why this is such a struggle.

 

I haven't changed any viewpoints from the default installs (not intentionally in any case - I never even looked at camaras.cfg).  Frankly, I've just un-installed and re-installed the 737's for the 1d service pack, and stock standard, the throttles are in the way of viewing the FMC properly (when throttles are controlled by AT - i.e. in use and not in idle positions) - can't see the bottom left side of the keypad, and a little bit of the bottom part of the screen.... 

 

Perhaps it's just time to nuke cameras.cfg and see if a reset to defaults will help.  Something tells me that Ez Doc (or I), messed something up there more than what I thought.

 

Will give it a go again, but I'm not prepared to fork out what PMDG charges for the 777 (and I'm sure future planes too), if only a VC is available and I am not 100% confident in using the VC.  Purchased Aerosoft's Airbuses (both of them) too, and never made one complete flight with them yet because of the VC.... 

 

It's unfortunately sad, but true.  And I'm also fairly sure that I can't be the only one here too... I'm not THAT unique

[cannonplug]

The hatswitch on the yoke/joystick for panning around also does the trick quite nicely. That together with the A key soon made me forgot about 2d panels.

[downscc]

 

 

I suffer from severe psoriatic arthritis,

 

I have mild rheumatoid arthritis and found that a trackball solved the wrist problem I had with the mouse, and now I will never go back to a mouse. The Kensington trackball is very easy to set up and use, and it makes pan and zoom in the VC almost natural.

[Chris Knipe]

found that a trackball solved the wrist problem I had with the mouse, and now I will never go back to a mouse

 

Used to have one of those back in my school days... LOVED them, but they SUCKED at playing first person shooters  I loved the stuff... Maybe I should look into getting one again yes... 

 

Ok, the magical "A" button, does wonders :-)  I think I may just be able to get used to that.  Not sure what the "hatswitch" is that has been referred to.

 

Not wanting to derail the thread too much, but can anyone explain the significance of what happens when you use "A" to change the view point, followed by the space bar?  The "A" change the viewpoint, but following a spacebar, the view changes almost entirely again a second time?

 

I'll give it a couple of flights now and see if I can come right with this - and yes, this will take some getting used to... But perhaps there are indeed hope for the 2D chap out of hell LOL.

[scandinavian13]

 

 

Not wanting to derail the thread too much, but can anyone explain the significance of what happens when you use "A" to change the view point, followed by the space bar?  The "A" change the viewpoint, but following a spacebar, the view changes almost entirely again a second time?

 

Think of the various views selected by 'A' as moving your head to that point (but not having to worry about smacking your head, knees, elbows, or other body parts on things). You can then move your head/eyes around by holding the spacebar and moving your mouse. I only usually use the spacebar/mouse combo when in the main VC view, or F/O view. The rest - like the pedestal and overhead views - shouldn't require any spacebar/mouse. One the next sim run, all of the viewpoints are reset to their defaults, so don't worry if you spacebar/moused the view oddly. The benefit here, though, is that you can still pan/zoom to read finer details in the various 'A' views if you need to, whereas a 2D panel of the same location would require you to physically move your body closer to the screen.

 

Over time, I've found myself simply using the main VC view the whole time and clicking around "from the pilot seat" without cycling views. The angle is slightly odd at first, but over time, you get used to the oblique view enough to be able to click on the right switch at the right time and not need to look at it top down (or bottom up), head-on.

[Chris Knipe]

Over time, I've found myself simply using the main VC view the whole time and clicking around "from the pilot seat" without cycling views. The angle is slightly odd at first, but over time, you get used to the oblique view enough to be able to click on the right switch at the right time and not need to look at it top down (or bottom up), head-on.

Understandable, and I think that's precisely what is bothering me a bit at this point in time. What I don't get however, is how do you manage to only use the "from the pilot seat" view?

 

I've now already removed (so FSX re-created a default cameras.cfg), and my 737 is a brand new install for SP 1D so nothing changed there too... I'm in flight now, and from the "pilot seat" for example, both my FMCs are blocked by the stick and the throttles... That's what I don't get... Something must be a miss here if you guys claim that you can access anything unrestricted because in my VC, I have quite a few items blocking the views of quite a lot of other things too (and I understand that will happen depending on the view point - but them my view points must not be correct)....

 

The above in the default VC "from the cockpit seat", a little bit zoomed it looking down at the two FMCs...

 

PS: Unedited, standard zoom, looking down "from the cockpit seat"... Light switches blocked, FMCs blocked...