Intel Skylake CPUs are bending due to cooler mount pressure!

[martin-w 3,234]

Just a heads up gentlemen, as it's not been mentioned on Avsim

 

A few weeks ago, a report from German "PC Games Hardware" highlighted a potential issue with Skylake CPU's and third party CPU coolers. 

 

Due to the reduced thickness of the CPU substrate, Skylake CPU's can bend due to cooler mounting pressure. The mechanically weaker CPU, its pins and the motherboard contacts can all be bent and sheared by the pressure exerted by cooler clamping mechanisms.

 

At the moment it seems that its just Scythe coolers that are  effected. Namely the  Ashura, Mugen 4, Mugen 4 PCGH-Edition, Fuma, Ninja 4, Grand Kama Cross 3, Mugen Max and Kotetsucan.

 

Owners of the coolers above should contact Scythe for a free replacement screw set.

 

Intel confirmed that they have been made aware of the issue and are investigating. Intel say they don't test CPU's with third party coolers, but they do recommend a 50lb maximum mounting pressure.

 

To be clear, it's not the weight of the cooler that's the issue, it's the mounting system that is exerting too much pressure. However, obviously a heavier cooler will exacerbate the issue.

 

​For those with Noctua coolers. Noctua say they run a gamut of tests on all new CPU's to ensure their coolers are compatible, and that the SecuFirm 2 system is unaffected. The same precautions already in place should be adhered to. Namely if you have a large CPU cooler, then don't drag it around to LAN parties, ship it across the country with the cooler attached. And take care when moving your enclosure.

 

ARCTIC: "We want to assure with this official statement that ARCTIC cooler not affected by these problems - and thus are fully Skylake compatible". The company said it adhered to Intel's mechanical specification.

 

EK Water Blocks: "While current water cooler of EKWB are fully Skylake-compatible, the manufacturer advises caution with older coolers," noted PCGamesHardware.de.

 

Noctua: "Our SecuFirm2 mounting systems are subjected to prior to the release of new platforms an extensive compatibility testing" said Noctura. No problems have been reported to Noctura by customers or re-sellers etc.

 

Scythe: This well known cooler company admitted that while "All coolers are in fact generally compatible with Skylake sockets… in some cases result in damage to CPU and motherboard when the PC is exposed to stronger shocks (eg shipping or relocation)."

 

Thermaltake: "All current CPU cooler from Thermaltake, as the Frio Silent series, as well as older models such as the NIC series, the Contac series and the Frio series, and compact water cooling of the types Water 2.0 and Water 3.0, are 100% compatible with socket 1151 processors."

 

Thermalright: "The pressure is pre-defined and accurately based on the specifications of the CPU manufacturer,"said this company. There are no reports of Thermalright cooler induced problems so far.

 

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/88628-intel-skylake-cpus-bending-due-cooler-mount-pressure/

[Chris Bell 165]

wow... another one?

allot of issues with 6th gen,

 

still a 50lbs torque is allot; why who’d anyone exceed or even come close to 50lbs torque

[westman 257]

Heard about this september last year, mostly happens after delidd and if you mount a ln2 pot very very hard to overcome that the paste cracks when lower than -140c.

Can be someting with intel some CPUs bend when delidd even if Its brand new nerver mounted before delidd.

The CPUs i have had no problems after delidd and a have mounted the pot very very hard.

I know guys that straighten the PCB with a heatgun after delidd with great sucsess.

[Chris Bell 165]

I know guys that straighten the PCB with a heatgun after delidd with great sucsess.

that’s because they never heard of Loctite and obviously have no idea what they’re doing,

[GSalden 4,655]

that’s because they never heard of Loctite and obviously have no idea what they’re doing,

Wahaha ...

[martin-w 3,234]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3016421/hardware/msis-cpu-guard-aims-to-keep-your-skylake-chip-from-bending-under-pressure.html


MSI have a sollution. A metal guard.

 

 

Interestingly, PC Gamer encountered the issue with one of two all in one water coolers. Either the EK XL Predator or Corsiar H90. It occured when they were moving the systems around their office. They weren't sure which cooler it occurred with. They did comment thogh that they had used an electric screwdriver. Although they had done this previously with other CPU's without issues.

 

 

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-skylake-cpus-are-bending-under-the-pressure-of-some-coolers/

 

 

Either some third party cooler manufactures are exceeding the 50 lb limit, or Intel need to revise the limit. 50 lbs is the same maximum pressure as previous Intel CPU's, despite the Skylake substrate being thinner.

 

If anyone is building A Skylake system, be careful chaps. Don't be tempted to over torque.

[martin-w 3,234]

wow... another one?

allot of issues with 6th gen,

 

still a 50lbs torque is allot; why who’d anyone exceed or even come close to 50lbs torque

 

 

 

It's not 50 lb torque. Torque is measured in newton metres or pound-foot.      

 

It's 50 lbs of pressure. Still sounds like a lot but I think that's probably deceptive Chris. When you torque anything down the pressure increases markedly. But as I say, it's not a torque figure. 

 

In my opinion the issue is with over zealous owners, who over tighten the mounting mechanisms. There haven't been any reports of issues from the likes of Noctua etc. Not surprising because it's very difficult to over tighten the mounting mechanism.  It actually stops turning when sufficient torque is applied. It seems to be mounting systems like the Scythe HPMS that  can actually be overtightened far beyond that which is required.

[DescendDescend 25]

I have the NDH 15 and transport the PC to flight sim meetings on a monthly basis. Will see how long it takes to break.

[Chris Bell 165]

It's 50 lbs of pressure.

got it, in that case i believe it’s the PCB center point they measure with pressure while all 4 corners are supported,

the question if its only downforce pressure they cover in those specs or sideways pressure as well?

 

 

the PCB broke off in this picture because there's no bracket below it; or if there was it wasn’t the right height,

if you build your pressure with a gap present what do you expect?

 

in case im looking at this the wrong way; the whole board should have warped with the cpu,

[martin-w 3,234]

got it, in that case i believe it’s the PCB center point they measure with pressure while all 4 corners are supported,

the question if its only downforce pressure they cover in those specs or sideways pressure as well?

 

I believe 50 lb's is the maximum force any part of the IHS, and thus the substrate beneath, can be subjected to. So clearly, a heavy cooler with a less than well engineered mounting system, might sag and increase the pressure at the bottom of the IHS, thus exceeding 50 lb's. It wouldn't be by much I suspect, but if the mount is over-tightened to the point that it's close to the max the substrate can take, then the extra force provided by a combination of gravity and impact would be damaging.

 

Essentially it's compresive static load, but impact results in a compressive dynamic load which does the damage.

 

That's my take on it, I may of course be talking rubbish.

 

 

in case im looking at this the wrong way; the whole board should have warped with the cpu,

 

No, I don't believe so. The motherboard is firmly screwed to the motherboard tray, so motherboard bending is unlikely. What did happen, and I'll see if I can find the image, is that the CPU PCB didn't just bend, it was pushed into the motherboard socket itself, bending the pins.

 

 

I have to say, I'm still of the opinion that this issue is a result of a combination of a badly engineered mounting system and overzealous tightening. The manufacturer effected got away with it prior to Skylake but now they can't.

 

I'm told that the HPMS system can literary be tightened as much as you like. Scythe have conformed that it's their older coolers that are the issue, not so much the latest Skylake certified coolers.

 

I suspect that those of us with large tower coolers from makers who well engineer the mounting system, that take care when moving their rig's, shouldn't have an issue. There have been reports of possible issues with AIO's, but Corsair seem to think their coolers are unaffected.

 

This was the motherboard image I was referring to...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.techrevu.com/php/Review-id.php?id=6574

[martin-w 3,234]

I have the NDH 15 and transport the PC to flight sim meetings on a monthly basis. Will see how long it takes to break.

 

 

I suspect you'll be okay Howard. Noctua say they thoroughly tested the D15 with Skylake, and the SecuFirm 2 system is just about the best. Take care though, avoid bumps and bangs.

 

 

This is the full statement from Noctua...

 

Noctua:

“Our SecuFirm2 mounting systems are subjected to prior to the release of new platforms an extensive compatibility testing. It could be determined with reference to the Intel LGA1151 platform (“Skylake”) no problems. Also on the part of our customers and our specialist resellers and system integration partners we have no reports of any problems. Our SecuFirm2 mounting systems access (with the exception of some more compact models of the L-series) for generating the necessary contact pressure on coil springs back, which allow a certain degree of flexibility both in terms of tolerances in the height as well as the case of vibrations or other forces. Compared with conventional spring-less installation systems where pressure is produced exclusively by the deformation of the mounting brackets, so can reduce the mechanical load on the CPU, and motherboard socket and any damage can be prevented by excessive force.”

[Chris Bell 165]

it would be interesting to have the units full story of how this came about,

in the last image you posted you clearly see an additional imprint on the other side;

 

I imagine this pc box fallen to the ground from a minimal table height,

It landed unevenly on its bottom or the bottom edge; the initial drop popped open the cheap cpu latch;

Then a second tumble to its final rest position on its side; with the weight of the cooler pulling down on the half loosened cpu,

you clearly see from both corner imprints of the cpu into the pins; didn’t happen while the cpu was in place,

or from evenly applied downward pressure; or else all the pins should have been bent as well!

makes sense?

[martin-w 3,234]

I can only see a deformation where the arrow points, but who knows. Nobody has reported latches popping open. PC simply malfunctions and on further inspection the damage is seen. 

 

So far it's only coolers without spring retention systems that have demonstrated issues. Decent coolers with spring retention systems can absorb the excessive forces.

 

Anyone purchasing a cooler for Skylake, should make sure the mounting mechanism has a spring retention system.

[z06z33 763]

Why did Intel make it thinner? To cut costs?

[Chris Bell 165]

I can only see a deformation where the arrow points,

have a closer look please