777 weights

[rondon9898 84]

Hi chaps,

 

I can't seem to get the search function to work at the moment, it just keeps returning me to the PMDG General forum. I'm looking for the definitive Empty Weight, Maz ZFW, Max TOW and max LW for the PMDG 777, both variants, as as far as I can tell, the PFPx and TOPCAT data is about 10 tons off the mark. Can someone direct me to this info in the manuals or, even better, tell me if they know them?

 

Cheers!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I'm looking for the definitive Empty Weight

 

There is none. Surprisingly, that's like asking the for the "definitive human weight." It depends on what the operator paid for. The MTOW of the modeled 777 is on the PAYLOAD page. Most of the others will be in the Aircraft.CFG. There's a limitations section in the FCOM (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181) that should contain basic values, too.

[Jetset408 108]

I think John had a valid question. There IS a definitive set of those weights for the aircraft PMDG chose to model, surely? I found the only way to find the OEW was to empty the plane and see what the TOW was (which gave it fo 1 d.p.).  What is the OEW PMDG chose to model? Did you base it on a partiular in service aircraft, or use one of Boeings illusrative examples in its APM? (hopefully im not hijacking the thread here, rather adding to it...)

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I think John had a valid question.

 

I did too. That's why I answered it instead of dismissing it.

 

Just like the MTOW, one can easily find OEW by hitting SET EMPTY and look at the ZFW. Additionally, the OEW is listed in the aircraft.cfg, I believe. Not being at my sim computer, I can't give a direct answer. A little looking around will get you all the information that you need.

[Jetset408 108]

You did dismiss it initially - he asked for the definitive weight of the PMDG aircraft (which is not at all like asking for human weight - there is indeed a definitive weight that has been modelled!). You have now answered it.

 

Anyway - out of interest, was it based on a particular aircraft or the Boeing APM?

[Budbud 227]

 

 

There is none. Surprisingly, that's like asking the for the "definitive human weight."

 

I hope there is for one tail number and I hope the OEW for one particular aircraft doesn't change from one day to the other like my weight (proportionally...) or weights and takeoff calculations would become even more of a mess!

 

Sorry, couldn't help...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

You did dismiss it initially - he asked for the definitive weight of the PMDG aircraft (which is not at all like asking for human weight - there is indeed a definitive weight that has been modelled!). You have now answered it.

 

dis·miss

verb - to treat as unworthy of serious consideration.

 

If I dismissed it, I wouldn't have provided the rest of the information on where to find all of the information. I would've stopped after the second sentence. How could I have answered it in one post, but not the other, with nearly the exact same commentary? Granted, I specified the OEW a little more explicitly in the second post, but I'd say that "[m]ost of the others will be in the Aircraft.CFG" pretty well covered it in the first. If John felt dismissed, then he could certainly indicate as much. You do not need to speak for him.

 

 

 

Anyway - out of interest, was it based on a particular aircraft or the Boeing APM?

 

Likely whatever aircraft/data we had access to.

 

 

I hope there is for one tail number and I hope the OEW for one particular aircraft doesn't change from one day to the other like my weight (proportionally...) or weights and takeoff calculations would become even more of a mess!

 

Sorry, couldn't help...

 

It won't change day to day, no. The aircraft weight may change based on the season if the operator changes the layout based on seasonal travel, though that's usually not the case. The aircraft weight may also change if the aircraft changes "fleets." UAL's 76s are different for transcons and transoceanic routes, though this usually only happens when the aircraft goes in for a check.

 

What I was getting at, though, is that you're not going to be able to search the interwebs and find some value that says "MTOW IS ALWAYS X." It doesn't exist.

 

A definitive MTOW doesn't even exist for your car (GVWR in the case of a car), either. Surprise! Google it. It's harder to find than you think. Then, after that, go out to your car, open the driver's side door and look at the placard on the door sill. It'll likely be different from the basic value that you found online.

[Budbud 227]

 

 

The aircraft weight may also change if the aircraft changes "fleets." UAL's 76s are different for transcons and transoceanic routes, though this usually only happens when the aircraft goes in for a check.

 

Well definitely true when some companies have 2 even 3 dfferent cabin configs for the same model...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Well definitely true when some companies have 2 even 3 dfferent cabin configs for the same model...

 

 

Yep. UAL runs 4 different configs of the 777-200ER and 6 different configs of the 737-800. And even then, within those fleets, you'll find minor variations for various things: one plane came from another airline, got the same cabin config, but has SATCOM, or a dual battery, etc etc.

[rondon9898 84]

Thanks chaps I've found the maximum figures in the FCOM and aircraft.cfg and I've edited the PFPX template accordingly. By the way, Kyle, is the cabin configuration editable? I see the entries in the aircraft.cfg for the cabin sections and empty weight. That's not important - I just ask out of curiosity.

 

Edit: By the way, just to clarify, I understood that the empty weight is of course dependent on airline options etc in RW but I was looking for the PMDG-specific figures so that I could make PFPX, TOPCAT and my sim all tally up correctly, as you all worked out. TOPCAT thrust settings still don't tally up with the PMDG FMS but hey-ho.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

By the way, Kyle, is the cabin configuration editable? I see the entries in the aircraft.cfg for the cabin sections and empty weight. That's not important - I just ask out of curiosity.

 

Nope - stuck as it is. Weight is weight, though. You can approximate CG shifts of different layouts by adjusting the weight in the forward and rear bins if you really want, but as long as the CG is in range (which the planners and dispatchers will verify before you even get to that point), it's not something pilots generally pay attention to.

[BrianW 124]

I agree with the weight is weight methodology in the sim. However for clarification OEW/DOW is the basic weight plus operational items. This includes the crew and pantry among other things. Since both the required crew and pantry stock will vary based on the type of flight the OEW/DOW can change on a per flight basis. For one airline the difference between a short domestic and a long haul flight for both crew and pantry can be close to 2900 kg for a 77W.

 

For those that are interested in simulating this in PFPX you can do it via the aircraft equipment/configuration tab in the aircraft database. When it comes to entering it in the payload section of the 77W however you’d still want to just enter the total ZFW PFPX generates.