Setting a key on the keyboard for barometric pressure...

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Hi Lena,

 

I guess my general fear is that X-Plane is moving from the hardcore FLIGHT simulation platform that I grew to love to a more "general user" game, the temptation of the easy money and the huge userbase that FSX enjoys.

 

I have seen the same effect in the development of our 737 (which I know you are aware of ;-)). I am steering the team to make this as realistic as possible. But realistic is hard, sometimes! So I have to fight the urge within our team to cater to the "noob user" by adding (unrealistc) aids, that makes it easier to operate the aircraft, so that every joe bloe can feel like an expert 737 Captain... Things like "helping messages" when you enter wrong stuff in the FMS, pop up screens, autoinserting values, etc. Yes, I see the point about ergonomics and the missing Copilot, but the "dummy mode" has to be carefully evaluated.

 

Because thats what the majority of the flightsim user base is - layman that want to feel like pilots, but don´t want to put in the effort. This in turn creates pressure on the developers to make games for this group, they are the majority and they pay the most money! So this leaves the "hardcore" simulation pilots in a defensive posture, and soon game developers have you flying through the sky over Hawaii chasing floating coins, because most users think that might be cool...

 

If you want to know what I am talking about, look at the official X-Plane "Questions and answers" page: questions.x-plane.com

 

Most of these questions are leaving me with my mouth agape. How do these people even start their computer to post these questions, it seems that some would have a hard time to even operate a power switch...Now imagine someone like that trying to fly a 737 and then posting his "wishlist" of features. Autoinstall, Autostartup, Autotaxiout. Autotakeoff,...

 

This is why I stopped trying to "convert" FSX user to X-Plane. Only few of them have the "right stuff" to enjoy X-Plane for what it is, the majority just want to fly around and don´t care a bit how to really operate an aircraft, they look for the "B" key, wonder why "S" doesn´t change the views,they can´t watch AI airplanes land and take-off on real airline schedules for hours (while they should be doing homework), the joystick doesn´t work "right away", whats up with the seasons and why is the Statue of Liberty missing? Please stay with FSX/Prepared, the scenery is so much better and then there is OrbX!  :smile:

 

Jan

 

PS: In an Airbus you can "preset" your altimeter during cruise-flight, then only push in the altitude setting knob when passing the TL. Maybe also in more modern Boeings, not sure.

 

 

"Seriously, Jan?"  Flight simulation is only for the hard-core?  What the heck does that mean?....  What you are doing on a computer IS NOT REAL. by any means... Pressing keys...shift-C this or that to simulate a real-world cockpit action and/or function...is not real...so in that regard, how a user defines their level of involvement within the hobby...is all that matters.

 

If you want to sit in a multi-million dollar flight simulator cockpit...sure...that's another discussion, but to say some users could be 'noob's, being defined as such, by being parsed by your personal expectations/definitions...is somewhat...straining it. There are no noobs...there are flight simulation users.

 

Jan, you used the term in your post; 'to each his own'...yet your comments lean heavily as I see it...to 'each his own'---- only if their usage aligns to your personal needs, requirements, and flight simulation expectations.

 

Yes...if Laminar gave me a one key press, auto-update of current B.P. you bet your life, I'd avail myself of it...and be able to carry on another pressing function of flight control enroute.  Yes sir!  Just I as I do in FSX, P3D, and FS9...of which all of them, I do not consider a flight 'game', whilst X Plane as per your pervue,--- is for 'serious' application of flight simulation!

 

 I kept reading in the background harmony, ah... platform elitism.  

 

Cheers,

[Janov 2,383]

Hi Sesquashtoo,

 

Hmm, I guess I am guilty as charged on the account of platform elitism. I try hard to conceal it, but it obviously doesn´t work. :wink:

 

But hey, if you found out that setting the altimeter is challenging because there are so many things to do in a short timeframe (approach), then you have already learned something with X-Plane that you haven´t learned with FSX: Flying is all about managing the workload, proper preparation and expecting the unexpected. You can learn how to land an airplane in 2 hours, but thats not why flying is hard.

 

I think you might be right, maybe my views are a bit old-fashioned, I love to convey about flying, it´s challenges and why I think mastering these challenges can be rewarding. I wish I could teach everybody about that, because it is something I love so much myself and want to share it.

 

But maybe that is not for everyone, and I should stop trying to convince people to do it "my way", I have to admit that.

 

So good luck with the B key, it´s probably a simple addition and Austin might just sneak that in for the next update. I will just see that we disable that function for our plane .

 

No offense, Jan

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Hi Sesquashtoo,

 

Hmm, I guess I am guilty as charged on the account of platform elitism. I try hard to conceal it, but it obviously doesn´t work. :wink:

 

But hey, if you found out that setting the altimeter is challenging because there are so many things to do in a short timeframe (approach), then you have already learned something with X-Plane that you haven´t learned with FSX: Flying is all about managing the workload, proper preparation and expecting the unexpected. You can learn how to land an airplane in 2 hours, but thats not why flying is hard.

 

I think you might be right, maybe my views are a bit old-fashioned, I love to convey about flying, it´s challenges and why I think mastering these challenges can be rewarding. I wish I could teach everybody about that, because it is something I love so much myself and want to share it.

 

But maybe that is not for everyone, and I should stop trying to convince people to do it "my way", I have to admit that.

 

So good luck with the B key, it´s probably a simple addition and Austin might just sneak that in for the next update. I will just see that we disable that function for our plane .

 

No offense, Jan

Jan...about disabling that 'B' key function...you made me laugh in a very good way...for the golden rule is...the person with the gold, makes the rules..LOLOLOL!

 

Good go!

 

I don't look for in-cockpit shortcuts beyond the B.P. 'B' key of the M.S. based platforms...and personally plan my actions out 15 miles ahead of when needed or anticipated...but I do still look at the constantly updated B.P, as schlepping it off, to my First Officer...   He's getting paid...let him handle it! ))))

 

No offense taken, nor I hope you...from me.

 

Cheers,

 

Mitch

[Janov 2,383]

No offense taken, nor I hope you...from me.

 

Cheers,

 

Mitch

 

Never ever :smile: . We are stuck in this geeky hobby together, and we are generally pulling in the same direction! And what fun would this be if we always agreed on everything?

 

All the best, Jan

[Morrigan 90]

 

 

No offense, Jan

 

I don't think anyone took any offense. Your opinion is as valid and as legit as everyone's else! 

I just think it's not a bad thing to cater shortcuts to the people that want to use them, given it does not hurt the "hardcore" simmer per se. 

 

I guess my views are just less authoritarian on that matter and I don't feel the need to force people to feel like they achieved something 

[Jean-Jacques 120]

"I just think it's not a bad thing to cater shortcuts to the people that want to use them, given it does not hurt the "hardcore" simmer per se."

 

There we go! Well said Lena. But I did enjoy the civalized debate! Thank you for that.

 

JJ

[LAdamson 240]

As far as I'm concerned, most home computer setups do not have full panels with all switches and knobs, and the flow from left hand to right hand just doesn't work, anywhere close to real time..................if you must always rotate "screen" knobs and switches by "mouse".  In this case, shortcuts work!   I too, liked the B key.

 

For the record, I never flew airliners, and never had a full time co-pilot. Just higher performance singles and aerobatic aircraft. Worked on many panels, including layout, for the best possible work flow.   I can appreciate the idea of keeping everything as realistic as possible, but keyboards, mouses, and a few additional switches on our home aviation  sticks and yokes, don't translate to what we can do in real time, without a pause button. Besides, I always found it much easier to look at, and set the real altimeter, than many of the ones on a computer screen. In fact, years ago, I brought an altimeter into the house, just to compare visuals................since the screen version just seemed tougher to get the actual numbers.  

[tonywob 4,768]

I used this shortcut a lot in FSX, but in X-Plane I've never needed to. The reason is that I very rarely use real weather or fly above 10,000ft.

 

One thing I frequently notice about FSX/P3D users coming over to try X-Plane is that very few seem to have the patience to read the instructions or learn how to install addons/scenery. They see the interface, new keyboard shortcuts, etc and find it too complicated, complain they hate it and then disappear back to FSX. It always makes me wonder how such users ever sat down and learned to use the FMC or GPS in the first place. If I spend $60 on a piece of software or a game, I'd absolutely spend the time trying to learn how to use it. 

[propsfan 52]

I'll pay for and appreciate as much realism as the developers can provide in aircraft, scenery and the platform itself whilst acknowledging that it's a simulator at the end of the day. The better the simulation though, the more impressed we'll all be I think it's fair to say.

Catering for the mass market is easier and probably more profitable but I think it's important for developers to push for better. Janov is right to take pride in his work imo. The impulse to dumb things down for the masses should be resisted for the sake of the masses.

[MSFS Ralf 149]

If XP would have a working ATC, we would not have to discuss that. I don't use ATC because it's broken. Before flight I use FSRGW to download static weather and I take notes of departure and arrival weather. Easy, to change the barometic setting in the sim. But isn't that another cheat? Nothing wrong about a "b" key. It does not make you a worse sim pilot.

[warbirds 555]

I love the automatic part of modern airliners and think of the B button as just another automatic device to help me along the way.

 

My favorite,,absolute favorite airliner is the Aerosoft Airbus where the copilot does things like set the baro. I think that is realistic enough because if I was in a real airliner I would ask him to do the same.

 

And as far as realism goes I have flown real planes and there is no way in this time or the near future where a sim can even come a tiny bit close to giving me that old time feeling so men,,,,it's a game, just a game and all the chest pounding about how real you like to make it really is tiresome.

[uwespeed 497]

I used this shortcut a lot in FSX, but in X-Plane I've never needed to. The reason is that I very rarely use real weather or fly above 10,000ft.

 

One thing I frequently notice about FSX/P3D users coming over to try X-Plane is that very few seem to have the patience to read the instructions or learn how to install addons/scenery. They see the interface, new keyboard shortcuts, etc and find it too complicated, complain they hate it and then disappear back to FSX. It always makes me wonder how such users ever sat down and learned to use the FMC or GPS in the first place. If I spend $60 on a piece of software or a game, I'd absolutely spend the time trying to learn how to use it. 

 

Very true ... I also used MSFS before I switched to XP. Now, in very seldom cases, I still start FSX and find it very annoying that this and that doesn't work as I am expecting. I find it too complicated and I disappear back to XP :smile:. The FS-UI is not God-given (as well as the one of XP).

 

Seriously - learning something new is always "complicated", even the multiplication table was "complicated" when we learned it back then in school. If people weren't forced to learn it at school, many of them rather would have played a game during the lessons. But after all, it was good, that they took the hard way and learned the multiplication table, right? :wink:

[LAdamson 240]

To be truthful, every time I try to get back into simming..................... it's just too much "computer" of this and that, to optimize everything.  This applies to X-Plane, FSX, P3D and a few more. It's more a case of being a computer techie, than actual flying. At the same time, I've also forgot many of the exact rules, regulations, and radio talk for real flight, since I quit five years ago. With a few other hobbies, full time work, and retirement age, my mind just doesn't want to dwell on specifics, for just one hobby. In fact, I'm always getting interested in something new, and I'll read about it for hours on the internet.  I did fire up X-Plane and FSX last week, for one flight each. They both worked, but I still have freeware & payware aircraft, as well as scenery for both sims...............that I haven't downloaded in over a year.  Both of these flights were really cool, and  brought back good memories.  I always say, "someday, I'll get to it". 

[mdavis 10]

 

 

One thing I frequently notice about FSX/P3D users coming over to try X-Plane is that very few seem to have the patience to read the instructions or learn how to install addons/scenery. They see the interface, new keyboard shortcuts, etc and find it too complicated, complain they hate it and then disappear back to FSX.

 

I've noticed the same thing.  After adopting X-Plane as my main sim, I rarely return to FSX (except to fly a couple of airports that don't appear in X-Plane and which I'm too lazy to build on my own).  I find X-Plane, once I learned it, to be much better with views and some other features than FSX, and I always have a bit of trouble "re-learning" the keyboard and hat-switches when flying with FSX.  It's what you get used to that matters.

[jfjoubert 0]

Hi, you can use FlyWithLUA (or any other) scripting tool to do this...

 

There is even a sample script (automatic set qnh) which is included with FlyWithLUA. You can then map any key (even B ) to perform this action.

A small change in the code can be made to set standard QNH once above your transition altitude.