fsx-se NewComputer +FSX-SE + Windows10 + stutters

[SteveW 1,792]

Apparently the highmem fix got left out of the code by Microsoft; they simply forgot to activate it

No, back then cards were much less powerful and enabling HIGHMEMFIX could cause other problems, so it was left as an option. It was this option that was not available in the RTM version and made available in the service pack.

[bobterri 13]

I'm desperate!  I'll try removing Windows Defender and install AVIRA.  Nothing to lose!

 

Funny thing is, I used Windows Defender on my old computer (Windows 7) for years with no problems.

[SteveW 1,792]

 

The reason 31 fps limit works better is due to a rounding error in FSX code (this was uncovered by LM and fixed in P3D) Not sure if it was fixed in SE but I bet not. Also running at exactly 30 more times than not will yeild slightly less causing drops to 15 FPS [vsync only of course)

One fps above the limit destabilises the flow of frames. There's a constant battle to run at the vsync rate. Here's good ol' FSX with 20fps fixed and 1/3 vsync 60Hz monitor, quite obviously outperforming 21 fps:

 

 

 

 

And forcing it to run at just 1 fps above 20 requires another 5% CPU throughput, totally wasted.

[Slayer 190]

That is locked at 1/3 though. What is the situation at standard vsync or 1/2?

 

Please read this:

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31805#p31805

 

Although it goes back to P3Dv2 the info regarding FSX is pertinent...

[SteveW 1,792]

Interesting!  Certainly large bufferpools (like 10000000 etc.) seemed to do nothing for mine.  default or zero seems to be fine.  I might take the zero bufferpools setting out altogether..

The differences can be subtle and really requires software to measure or you'll go crazy. In tests on a 4GHz class CPU, 1000-2000 worked the smoothest on FSX Boxed.

 

That is locked at 1/3 though. What is the situation at standard vsync or 1/2?

 

Please read this:

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31805#p31805

 

Although it goes back to P3Dv2 the info regarding FSX is pertinent...

 

The same with 30fps, just 20 fps shows up better on the graphs.

 

"Please read this:"

Yeah, read that...

[Slayer 190]

Before trying to disable Defender or installing another antivirus that could make the problem worse, why not just exclude your sim directory and process as well as your addon directories? This will prevent needless scanning of your sim. 

[bobterri 13]

Before trying to disable Defender or installing another antivirus that could make the problem worse, why not just exclude your sim directory and process as well as your addon directories? This will prevent needless scanning of your sim. 

 

I've already done that.

[W2DR 1,859]

One other thing I've noticed on the GTX 970. You can run obscene AA settings with no framerate hit. But (there is always one of those.....) the hit comes with the stutters. Crank the AA to the max and the framerates are great and the scenery is marvelous, but the stutters in the turns are a killer. Flying in a straight line is wonderful...just don't bank the aircraft.

 

Doug

[bobterri 13]

I have set the AA settings down in NV Inspector to 4xS for Antialiasing and 2x Supersampling in the Antialiasiing Transparency Supersampling setting.

[SteveW 1,792]

I have set the AA settings down in NV Inspector to 4xS for Antialiasing and 2x Supersampling in the Antialiasiing Transparency Supersampling setting.

Are you on DX9 or DX10?

 

If you are on DX9 the 2x Transparency Supersampling does nothing, it's a DX10 and DX11 setting. We can add any setting from the sparse grid Transparency items along with the DX9 Antialiasing - Setting, this uses a scattered sample and can help conceal the edges of straight lines in DX9, but doesn't affect the shadows. Instead I always recommend simply choosing a stronger AA value from Antialiasing - Setting values like 2x2 [2x2 Supersampling (D3D only)] or 8xSQ [Combined: 2x2 SS + 2x MS].

 

Essentially the Transparency settings are for DX10 and DX11. "Transparency" refers to the mechanism of drawing the objects into the scene, and nothing to do with glass or see-through objects.

[bobcat999 8,444]

The reason 31 fps limit works better is due to a rounding error in FSX code (this was uncovered by LM and fixed in P3D) Not sure if it was fixed in SE but I bet not. Also running at exactly 30 more times than not will yeild slightly less causing drops to 15 FPS [vsync only of course)

 

Thanks for explaining it.  There is definitely something like this going on.  When I bring up the frame rate display (shift Z I think), it tends to read 30.9 fps when smooth and stable.

 

One fps above the limit destabilises the flow of frames. There's a constant battle to run at the vsync rate. Here's good ol' FSX with 20fps fixed and 1/3 vsync 60Hz monitor, quite obviously outperforming 21 fps:

And forcing it to run at just 1 fps above 20 requires another 5% CPU throughput, totally wasted.

 

 

I love the graphs and the scientific approach Steve, but it doesn't equate to what I see.  I get slight stuttering at 30 fps locked in FSX and vsync at 1/2, but silky smooth at 31.  Maybe it is purely down to my set up or monitor not syncing dead on.  What graphing software do you use? 

[SteveW 1,792]

I've got a setup going shows over 60fps all the time FSX Gold.

I'm using a 60Hz monitor, 1/2 Vsync set, and 30 fps in the display settings, DX10 4xSGSSAA, 1920x1200.

I'm in the outside view, holding the left pan button down, and the view is rotating very evenly. Very nice indeed. When I set it to 31fps on the slider, and pan, it's pretty much the same. In fact it's extremely hard to spot any difference at all! However, looking very closely every now and then there's a little catchup notch, tiny, but it's there. Going back to 30 and there's still a little catch up notch, maybe one or two less per rotation of the view, in all honesty. I have to switch back and forth to see it, there's just in favour of 30fps on my monitor. I just can't understand why this micro adjustment accounts for silky smooth verses stutter, you may well be seeing some other problem.

the info regarding FSX...

I think you are referring to the possibility of rounding up of the shift-z fps display in FSX. This is not an issue with Direct 3D, which report fps accurately through the GPU and simconnect, as in with the use of FSUIPC for fps monitoring, that would be spot on.

[Slayer 190]

 

 

By the way, I have an ancient 19 inch CRT monitor that has a refresh rate of 85mhz.  Also, my CPU is also overclocked to 4.6 GHZ and is Corsair Hydro Series H110i GT water cooled.

 

This might be a clue to his issue running at 85hz. To get a smooth framerate running unlimited he'd have to be running at 85 FPS the whole time.

 

Have you tried lowering the refresh rate of your monitor to 60 , just to see what happens?

[SteveW 1,792]

Messing around a bit tonight. Setting 32,33,34...each gives slightly different results along the same lines, all about the same performance, maybe one or two better than the others with less catch-ups per rotation.

 

I'm fairly confident it's just the number of times there will be a vsync wait per revolution, whether there's a frame in hand or a frame behind. I think that the monitor timing can be between for instance 59 to 61 Hz for a "60Hz" monitor. And so it would be prudent to try a few settings around the supposed division of 30 fixed, 29 or 31 may be better than 30 on certain systems.

[Slayer 190]

The catch ups are the physics simulation being out of sync. That's what I was referring to. The example Beau gives I think is based on 60hz? Now it throws another wrinkle into it running at 85 hz...confusing

 

" Some visual stutters can occur even when the FPS is fairly consistent if the physics simulation is out of synchronization. The user aircraft is allowed to update anywhere between 90-120 FPS (same was true in v1/FSX). If the fame time is longer than than the max, multiple iterations are needed and the system tries to find a value in the min/max range to avoid having remaining time that rolls over to the next visual frame. Your best bet is to keep frame-rates in one of the sweet spots where the math works out:

1. 120-90 FPS (8.333-11.111 ms) simulation and visual time delta is the same. no issues.

2. 60-45 FPS (16.66-22.222 ms) 2 steps at half the frame time will work out with no remainder

3. 40-30 FPS (25-33.333 ms) 3 steps works out with no remainder

4. 30-0 These should be fine

40-45, and 60-90 are problem ranges.
We found a bug hiding deep in the remainder calculation that has been around since at least FSX which ends up picking the worst case remainder instead of the best. This adds 5.7 ms of variance in simulation steps between frames in the 60-90 range and 11.4 in the 40-45. So if you're locked at 42fps, the simulation is jumping back and forth between roughly 30 and 60 fps."