P3D V3.x worth the upgrade cost/hassle from 2.x?

[Noel 4,487]

I had planned on not upgrading to v3 because 2.3 has addressed my needs well enough since assembling a new machine 6//2013 and was determined to hold pat until P3D 64 bit arrives whenever and if ever that happens.  Unfortunately a problem developed that has me for the first time on this Win 7 install reinstalling the OS and P3D w/ add ons.  I think I lose the QW757 going to v3.x, and if I go to 3.x and I need to be able to use FSCaptain.   If anyone knows if V3.x purchase includes a 64 bit version (e.g., as PMDG offered w/ some releases...)

 

Please vote if you have found the additional $200 and time and loss of some add-on compatibility (perhaps) worth it for you overall--you'd do it again.

 

Thanks

[GSalden 4,656]

Step in when v3.2 is released...

 

Version 3.1 is already very good but there are some issues that will be fixed then , like the "memory leaking" and not correctly working HDR when using Night Environment ( LM stated this ).

[JimmiG 244]

Still on 2.5 here, mostly because not enough scenery has been converted yet (particularly OrbX airports). Also it's working fine and VAS seems to be under control.

"Memory leaking" doesn't sound good, considering v3 was supposed to improve memory/VAS consumption...

[Bobsk8 12,580]

One issue I have with V3 and V3.1 are the occasional CTDs, most involving nttdll.dll  , which I never had in 2.5. I see many complaints about this on the P3D forum. 

[jkeye 150]

Didn't think twice about switching to p3d v3 and find the VAS management a world better.

Fscaptain works fine. Didn't think the qw757 was supported for p3d.

Jay

[ryanbatc 12,815]

If you use high end addons (both aircraft and scenery) then yes it's worth it - because of the VAS savings

[swiesma 625]

If you use high end addons (both aircraft and scenery) then yes it's worth it - because of the VAS savings

 

True.

 

Did not have a single CTD in V3 so far. Runs absolutely perfect for me.

I Could not say this about 2.X.

[sgreen91 182]

No CTD on my 3.1 other than by my own doing.  Very stable build.

 

Recommend 3.1 over 2.5

[rparson99 32]

Some key addons still have not been updated (like takpac and others) but V3 is a solid improvement from a gui and graphics perspective over 2.5....and there's plenty of great addons already updated and others promised.

 

Since it's a pay/full upgrade, the timing is up to you.

[Noel 4,487]

Didn't think twice about switching to p3d v3 and find the VAS management a world better.

Fscaptain works fine. Didn't think the qw757 was supported for p3d.

Jay

Works great in P3D 2.3--dunno past that.

Here's an important question to me if you will.   Someone may have answered it in another thread but if you know.  I've read AA seems to be better in version 3 over 2.x.  It is so much better that 4XSGSS does not have to be used?  I ask of course because of the prodigious impact some cloud situations create on frame rate performance, how taxing it is on even very high end GPUs.  If this were the case, that there has been substantial improvement in those situations where frame rate is heavily impacted in dense clouds w/o sacrificing what 4XSGSS and other Inspector settings bring to image quality, then I can clearly see it would be worth the $200.  

[jkeye 150]

There are different pricing options and I'm not sure about AA specifically but for me the upgrade was worth every penny.I think the way to go is to upgrade when you feel your current setup needs improvement. For me its whenever a major release has been tested and tried and reported to be beneficial from the get go.

Jay

[Noel 4,487]

There are different pricing options and I'm not sure about AA specifically but for me the upgrade was worth every penny.I think the way to go is to upgrade when you feel your current setup needs improvement. For me its whenever a major release has been tested and tried and reported to be beneficial from the get go.

Jay

Thanks Jay.  I was that way in the remote past, FSX I'm speaking.  I've lost interest now in what it takes to update to an entire new release primarily because of what it takes to download the latest versions of updated add ons, and I have a slew of them like I'm sure many do here.   One tipping point for me could be the issue I mentioned, which was can one get very similar quality AA out of not using 4XSGAA, and if so that will lead to better performance in cloudy environments.  I have the $200 professional license for version 2, but for the same reason as stated above never went past 2.3 because it was truly good enough.  This being said, I'm facing many hours of download/install for various add ons and that doesn't change if I go to version 3.  The $200 charge I think I could choke down if the graphics issue mentioned is happening, without that I think I'll pass until 64 bit as I'm not very inspired w/ Avatar, a prettier GUI, and the transparent ATC window.   I don't think they included other aspects while they did the presumably tiny mod it took to go from opaque to transparent, like full resizability, font choice, and other features one might like to configure in the ATC window.

 

I just found my old question about 4xSGAA & clouds in version 3--no significant difference.  I'll save the $200 for 64-bit.

 

Cheers and thanks all.

[dgraham1284 92]

The "memory leak" is ONLY present when using 3rd party addon light when certain 3rd airports are present. A show stopper? Not in any way. The NTDLL.dll crash is illusive. But I have figured out that incompatible or incorrectly installed scenery can cause it. 

v3 is worth every penny. 

[Noel 4,487]

v3 is worth every penny. 

 

Beyond a new GUI,  a semi-transparent ATC window, and an Avatar function, what else do find compelling about 3 over 2.5 or 2.3 for that matter?  What's the consensus about how much better VAS is managed over 2.5 when all variables are controlled that affect VAS use?   30% better?  100% better?   

If you use high end addons (both aircraft and scenery) then yes it's worth it - because of the VAS savings

Ryan, how about your impression of how much better VAS management is?  What crude % increase (time/distance flown over complex scenery) in VAS management would you say has been your experience.   Is it so good you can effectively ignore your own VAS management strategies you might have been employing prior to version 3?

 

Still version 3 curious but it's not setting well with me for the cost at the moment.

[dgraham1284 92]

Beyond a new GUI,  a semi-transparent ATC window, and an Avatar function, what else do find compelling about 3 over 2.5 or 2.3 for that matter?  What's the consensus about how much better VAS is managed over 2.5 when all variables are controlled that affect VAS use?   30% better?  100% better?   

Ryan, how about your impression of how much better VAS management is?  What crude % increase (time/distance flown over complex scenery) in VAS management would you say has been your experience.   Is it so good you can effectively ignore your own VAS management strategies you might have been employing prior to version 3?

 

Still version 3 curious but it's not setting well with me for the cost at the moment.

 

 

Here's the deal. There are no VAS savings. What changed? It's ability to DUMP VAS. Your queston's aren't getting a lot of responses because this has been beaten to death. We are on v3. We are happy. 

 

Just watch this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8WBLBleUr0

P3Dv2.5 vs P3Dv3 Face Off - *First Look, Overview & Side by Side Benchmark*

Here is a video I made. v2.x This would have been an instant OOM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpMlDXFH-8

 

 

 

General Platform Updates Autodesk® Scaleform® Integration

• Gauges and panels as well as scenario object content can be built using Adobe® Flash® and integrated using Autodesk Scaleform.
• Several UI screens have been replaced with Scaleform implementations such as the ATC window, the Menu System, the InfoGen, and Menu Prompts. These aforementioned UI can be themed by third party developers.

Avatar Mode

• Enter and exit vehicles in Avatar Mode
• Avatar fully controllable in first and third person views
• Third party avatar support

Updated User Interface

• New default theme for v3
• Fixed UI layouts, position bugs, and improved overall usability
• ATC window now transparent and can be docked into main view
• Menu system performance and appearance improved
• InfoGen readability improved
• Fixed bug in menu system where blank entries could be created
• Fixed a bug where drop-down menu state would not always update while open
• Added close buttons to docked views when window titles are enabled (feature was always present but no visual indicator existed)
• Default scenario is now visible in Load Scenario screen
• Fixed a bug where Prepar3D.cfg setting 'ShowATCText' was not enabling ATIS captioning
• Fixed a bug where Prepar3D.cfg settings for ATC message color customization was not being respected
• Fixed bug with InfoGen where text would not appear when pausing or entering slew after changing start page to 0 in scenario
• Fixed issues with modifying default and favorites in save and load screens
• Load scenario page now shows vehicle name along with scenario description
• Trimmed down amount of menu items in certain cases including multiplayer and the context menu
• Fixed bug with Flight Planner that would prevent a flight plan from saving out if it was between two airports with no intermediate waypoints
• Fixed bug with certain text boxes where pasting text would not respect current selection and incorrectly move cursor
• Fixed bug where undocking a message view would instead undock the main view
• Fixed bugs with Scenario Startup screen where weather theme changes would apply when clicking cancel and user defined weather would not get applied when changed
• Fixed bug that prevented multiplayer menu items from being added to customized menus
• Fixed bug with Scenario Startup screen that prevented vehicle selection background from updating with the time of day
• Enhanced ATC window to provide feedback when ATC communication is disabled, i.e. Sim Paused, No Electric, etc.
• Fixed bug with ATC window that prevented UI from refreshing when switching from an AI camera back to the user
• Updated graphics profile UI and added prompt when attempting to save over existing profiles
• Time Preview window now takes up less space and readability improved
• Updated visual style of scroll buttons to be more clean
• Instrument Panel menu option now disabled if vehicle has no panels
• Added restrictions on what items can be accessed during Structured Scenarios (default restrictions can be overridden by developer)
• Removed redundant UIs used when importing and exporting controls
• Reassigned menu shortcut keys to remove duplicates
• Added Settings button to main menu screen
• Fixed bug where "Esc", "Spacebar", and "Enter" keys would not function in Scenario Startup screen
• Changing full-screen resolution while in full-screen now immediately changes resolution
• Fixed bug with category selection in Settings menu
• Fixed bug with UI scaling at low resolution and high DPI settings
• Made OK/Cancel button alignment consistent across screens
• Updated About Menu

Platform Improvements

• "Flights" terminology has been changed to "Scenario" better reflecting Prepar3D's full land, sea, and air training capabilities
• Fixed controller/joystick dropping issues with Windows 8.1
• Fixed multiplayer issue preventing user log out when exiting
• Multiplayer NET_VERSION correctly incremented to prevent different versions connecting with each other
• Fixed a bug where the main view could be closed while window titles were enabled
• Fixed bug where crash would occur when entering invalid license
• Fixed bug where thumbnail images for scenarios and aircraft would not match correctly
• Fixed bug where piston engine failure could reverse itself back to 100% health
• Fixed and updated multiple areas in the Learning Center
• Added more options in Scenery.cfg to accept more variables
• Fixed bug causing certain library objects to be rendered in wrong locations
• Fixed issue with multiplayer weather serialization
• Oculus Rift VR headset fully integrated into core. Headset now appears in camera mode list if connected.
• Fixed scenario reset bug where full scenery reload would occur when not required
• Added content error reporting for gauge loading errors
• Fixed an issue when deleting a scenario from the Load Scenario screen, the xml file would not get deleted from the Prepar3D v3 Files folder
• Fixed focus issue with multiple views. Would sometimes cause the camera to change on the wrong view when using context menu
• Panel-only prevented from being set on non-main views
• Fixed bug that would cause frame drops when hitting escape during instant replay playback
• Fixed bug that would cause full scenery reload to occur even when not moving vehicle
• Fixed bug where application icon would not appear in taskbar when booting into multiplayer
• Fixed bug that would always prevent user from entering lobby when booting into multiplayer
• Fixed bug where TowerController could spawn on the ground in multiplayer
• Added greater customization of InfoText appearance
• Scenario captions now on by default
• Fixed bug where child views could become panel-only after being opened
• Scenery library items which cannot be found are now prompted for removal
• Fixed bug that would prevent Scenario Briefing from being displayed in certain cases
• Fixed bug that would prevent pilot records from updating
• Fixed crash that would occur from misconfigured weapons and pylons
• Fixed weather serialization bug in multiplayer
• Fixed bug that would cause custom camera zoom levels to save out incorrectly
• Invalid flight plans are now prevented from being saved
• Fixed bug where non-unicode languages would alter starting location
• Fixed bug with booting into multiplayer from command line that would prevent scenario from loading
• Fixed bug that prevented cockpit button picking from working in FS9 BGL models
• Changing default scenario now immediately writes out to the Prepar3D.cfg
• Fixed bug that would prevent thunder sounds from being audible
• Updated vehicle load failure popup to relay when user will be placed in viewer sim
• Fixed issue that caused instability when using hoist and sling features
• Fixed docked view positioning bug when undocked views were opened
• Undocked views now position themselves on top of other open views
• Change low speed thrust limit on propeller in order to better blend the low and high speed thrust calculations
• User tips now enabled by default
• Fixed bug that would cause the WindowPlugin system to hang when changing between certain vehicles during a crash sequence
• Fixed bug where slew would not disengage when entering Instant Replay
• Fixed bug where changing the assignment of the "esc" key would not register
• Fixed bug that caused XBox 360 controller triggers to register as z-axis on first assignment
• Added Camera Center Offset to camera configuration

SpeedTree Integration (IDV Inc.)

• Platform now supports SpeedTree models which are high quality 3D trees, with wind animations and smooth LOD transitions
• SpeedTree models can be placed using SimDirector

New Content

• Virtavia Sikorsky H-60 Black Hawk
• India India Alpha Foxtrot Echo F-35A
• 18 new scenery library models of 3D trees (powered by SpeedTree)

Rendering and Performance Updates Updated Visuals and Performance

• Updated HDR to increase default brightness and enhance color clarity
• Developed animation blending support enabling lifelike avatar animations
• Fixed issues with water reflections that were affected by secondary views
• Fixed bug with non-tessellated terrain that would prevent ground detail flag from being respected
• Fixed visual bug with ground normal particles
• Fixed bug where taxiway lights would shift at large airports
• Removed old sun glare effect
• Fixed issue where virtual cockpit night lighting would not work as expected
• Fixed issue where global environment map would fail to load in some cases causing aircraft to look dull
• Fixed shadow issues seen with bathymetry enabled
• Added alpha write option for virtual cockpit panel textures
• Fixed bug where GPU terrain would shift at high altitudes
• Fixed light scaling issues
• Fixed issue that would prevent models from instancing in certain situations
• Fixed bug where applying vsync with triple buffering would cause rendering to freeze
• Fixed bug where shadows would not display properly on non-tessellated terrain
• Improved memory management reducing overall VAS usage and spikes
• Fixed bug that caused different objects to burn through fog including the sun, moon, galaxy, airport lights, and lens flare
• Fixed bug where material NO FOG setting was not always respected
• Multiplicative particles now fog correctly
• Fixed bug where pre-lit objects disabled fog
• Fixed water rendering issues while using non-tessellated terrain including reflection appearance and shadow brightness
• Optimized texture unloading during loads
• Unused terrain detail textures no longer loaded
• Added modifiable saturation effect to HDR enabling greater customization of visual appearance
• Fixed bug that would cause panel transparency to also affect virtual cockpit panels if Mipmap VC Panels was enabled
• Fixed issue where certain clouds would disappear at certain camera angles when on the ground
• Exposed bloom material scalar to Prepar3D.cfg to allow finer control of bloom
• Fixed bug that would cause fog to flicker when changing views
• Fixed bug where fog would not respect ShowWeather flag in camera config
• Fixed bug with fog appearance in reflections
• Overall shader optimizations for increased performance
• Fixed bug where certain scenery effects would only occur during the day
• Fixed bug where landing lights would draw incorrectly at steep angles
• Fixed bug where HDR and FXAA would not applied for one frame when switching views
• Fixed crash bug that could occur when opening multiple views in quick succession
• Fixed bug with wave animation wind offsets

Enhanced Particle System

• Optimized particle system by better utilizing GPU and system resources by reducing CPU side work, supporting indirect draw calls, and improving sorting algorithms
• Fixed issue where certain particle effects would not render due to prioritization errors
• Fixed bug with particle lifetimes
• Fixed z-fighting issue with particles using same emitter
• Fixed issue where certain aircraft light emitters would not be deleted
• Fixed bug where extrusions would not connect properly with certain effects

Enhanced Multiple GPU Support

• Fixed bug where lights would not draw correctly multiple GPUs
• Fixed bug where batched scenery objects would flicker across multiple GPUs
• Fixed bug where scenery objects would not correlate correctly across multiple views
• Fixed issue where effects would not synchronize properly between multiple GPUs
• Fixed bug where particles and extrusions would flicker and get out of order in SLI

SimDirector Updates

• Added Lua scripting support to SimDirector. Scripts can be fired through actions and ScenarioVariables can be used enabling more complex scenario logic
• Full avatar support in scenario creation. For example, the avatar can be referenced by other objects and can be given waypoints.
• Added scenery import and export support in SimDirector. BGLs can now be created from scenarios with scenery in SimDirector which greatly simplifies the scenery creation process
• Visual Path object added which can be attached to moving objects or waypoints
• Fixed bug where hang would occur occasionally when exiting backstage
• Updated internal error checking to prevent intermittent crashes
• Fixed bug that would prevent mobile scenery from appearing in preview window
• Fixed waypoint placement issue that would prevent waypoints from being placed close to other objects
• Fixed validation bug with timers
• Fixed issue where mouse cursor state would not change in certain cases
• Fixed bug with Menu Prompt Trigger that caused windows to close prematurely
• Fixed bug that prevented Jet Fighter Time Trial from loading in SimDirector
• Fixed tabbing issues in Catalog UI
• Fixed crash that would occur when attempting to play back VI session while in Virtual Instructor mode
• Fixed bug where sound would distort when entering SimDirector
• Fixed hang that would occur when booting directly into SimDirector
• ATC menu no longer stays open when entering SimDirector or switching SimDirector modes
• ThreatDome models added to object catalog
• Color property now supports alpha (e.g. Focal Point Color, Area Definition Color, On Screen Text Color)
• Fixed bug where SimDirector camera would be changed when switching the time of day
• Fixed bug with failure system index that would cause all instances to trigger when index of "0" was used
• Fixed bug where effects played in preview mode would persist when leaving preview mode
• Removed empty scenery objects
• Fixed bug that would cause a crash when entering SimDirector with auto validation on
• Fixed issue with ViewChangeAction that would prevent camera list from repopulating when loading new scenarios
• Fixed bug with POI scaling
• Fixed bug that would cause app to be disabled when pressing Ctrl+V in a group
• Enabling mouse yoke no longer prevents SimDirector controls from functioning
• Triggers now have OneShot set to false by default
• Improved scenario save and load times
• Scenario no longer unpaused when starting recording playback
• Fixed issue where help button was not selectable in undocked views
• Fixed catalog view to show selected object when using arrow keys to navigate through menu
• Fixed issue where SimDirector could crash if closed while changing modes
• Scenarios can now be saved in .spb format
• Snap to ground is now a global setting
• Minor errors in scenario .xml files no longer prevent scenario from loading
• Updated SimDirector settings page appearance and added options to enabled error logging
• Scenario error logging now on by default
• Fixed resource path issues that could occur when modifying scenarios in both core Prepar3D and SimDirector
• Fixed issue where sounds in sound subfolder would prevent scenario from being previewed
• Improved scenario loading times
• ScenarioMetaData no longer required but still recommended
• Validation window now opened if validation errors are reported during a mode change and user cancels
• Fixed issue that could cause SimDirector to slow down after prolonged use
• Object titles in Scenario Visualization now show ellipsis when string is too long to fit instead of just clipping out
• Fixed crash that could occur on shutdown caused by invalid objects being accessed
• TargetPlayer now settable in actions that can occur in multiplayer scenarios
• Fixed bug that would prevent DisabledTrafficAirports Descr from updating
• Failure Action no longer shows systems that are not applicable to current vehicle
• Fix crash that could occur when loading scenarios with invalid containers
• Modified FlightRealism object to prevent users from opening the Flight Planner, entering slew, and changing location, vehicle, or fuel during Structured Scenarios
• Added WorldRealism object to prevent users from changing world settings (weather, time) during Structured Scenarios
• Fixed bug where SimDirector UI styles would be applied to core application when leaving SimDirector
• Updated OnCompleteActions to support multiplayer concepts including IsGlobal and Triggering
• Triggers now have one shot set to true by default
• Fixed bug where switching between an entity and scenery object would not correctly update the preview window
• Fixed bug where Scenario Name and Description would be changed when leaving Preview mode with legacy flight (FLT) files
• SimDirector window title now uses the File Name instead of Scenario Title
• Fixed crash that could occur when bringing an item in the History into view
• Failure Action can now be applied to specific subsystems
• Fixed bug preventing weather settings from being respected in SimDirector
• Added message box to show when LoadScenarioAction would fire in Preview Mode
• Fixed issues with resource path when saving the same scenario both in and out of SimDirector
• Fixed bug that caused placed objects that were scaled in SimDirector to cull out prematurely

SDK and SimConnect Updates

• The ATC, Menu System, and InfoGen support third-party skinning through the Scaleform SDK
• SimConnect_WeatherRequestCloudState now returns correct range of values
• Fixed bug with SimConnect_AIReleaseControl not fully releasing control of AI
• Enhanced ISimObject property management
• Additional improvements to path configuration files to support third party developers
• Multiple configuration files added to support the path configuration system
• Added command line parameters for developers to add or remove additional paths to core content
• Sample projects updated to use Visual Studio 2013
• SetupAcesRoot.ms script added back to 3dsMax SDK
• Fixed incorrect Learning Center scenario names in documentation
• Cameras can now be attached to model attach points
• Base scenery can now be overridden without being deleted
• DLL.xml can now be modified through command line
• Scenery.cfg now supports command line activate and deactivate operations
• Added Weather System PDK allowing developers to set weather related settings and interface with weather station data
• Updated Learning Center descriptions for goals and mission objective SimConnect enumerations
• XToMDL tool now displays exceptions more clearly
• Updated carrier documentation
• Restructured Add-Ons documentation
• Added function to CabDir tool to strip trailing slashes or quotes from end of path
• Corrected how up events and up/down data are returned when using SimConnect_MapInputEventToClientEvent with joystick buttons and POV hats
• Added new blend mode for instrument panels to better support HUDs.

Installer Updates

• Installer now split into three separate components which can be updated and installed independently: Client, Content, and Scenery.
• Folder organization scheme modified to support new content and scenery installers
• Updated versioning scheme for installed files
• Legacy SimConnect clients no longer installed with Prepar3D installer. Separate installers for these are provided in install package if needed.
• Process of activating from another computer has been simplified
• The licensing and Digital Rights Management (DRM) system has been completely overhauled