JARDesign Airbus A340. That's Right!

[Glenn_C 135]

Totally agree. This is a troubling trend IMHO. 

If people did not buy buy half finished addons then the devs would have to change. I think once IXEG release their 737 that will raise the bar. I am not buying any planes until that get's released.

[SouthPawPaul 11]

If it wasn't for devs selling half baked aircraft then we wouldn't have much of a market for excellent developers like SimCoders!

[GamerNurd 7]

Why not develop aircrafts that are fully baked?

[Morrigan 90]

Why not develop aircrafts that are fully baked?

 

Because it's not always feasible. Costs of development, time needed or simply lack of skills needed. Vote with your wallet, and buy what you want to buy. No point in demanding from developers to act or work the way you want to.

 

On the other hand, FlightFactor was getting progressively better with each aircraft they released. Clearly learning on the way. Their 767 is clearly the money. 

I guess similar thing can happen with Jar's 340. 

[Guest Mik75]

With the A320 being still full of flaws, and the A330 having so many problems, my hopes for the A340 aren't too high!

[GamerNurd 7]

Because it's not always feasible. Costs of development, time needed or simply lack of skills needed. Vote with your wallet, and buy what you want to buy. No point in demanding from developers to act or work the way you want to.

 

On the other hand, FlightFactor was getting progressively better with each aircraft they released. Clearly learning on the way. Their 767 is clearly the money.

I guess similar thing can happen with Jar's 340.

I don't "demanding" developers. Just mean that why jump to a new project when previous projects aren't finished? That's not the way to have satisfied customers.

[alfamike 67]

Aaargh.... what a shame, he is going down the Flightfactor road of churning out one pay-ware after another instead of dealing with his A320/A330 systems which are in dire need of improvement and refinement. This kind of philosophy just gives X-Plane a bad name as a systems-light platform, whose last best hope is IXEG.

 

That's the reason we're putting so much time in development before to hit the market with our MD-82/83.

Sorry for the -plausible- OT.

[ShaneMontoya 8]

Aaargh.... what a shame, he is going down the Flightfactor road of churning out one pay-ware after another instead of dealing with his A320/A330 systems which are in dire need of improvement and refinement. This kind of philosophy just gives X-Plane a bad name as a systems-light platform, whose last best hope is IXEG.

Well said deetee. Totally agree.

What's even worse IMHO is that, usually customers will pay 60USD for one of those "half-baked" projects - that's almost the "common" price for top-notch  FS-based counterparts (PMDG ngx base package 69.99USD). It's hard to understand that some X-Plane developers say something like" X-Plane market is different from FS market since X-Plane market has smaller size of audience".

IMHO both X-Plane market and FS market belong to flight simulation market, and the prices of projects from both platforms should be in the same level according to the quality. 

[GamerNurd 7]

Well said deetee. Totally agree.

What's even worse IMHO is that, usually customers will pay 60USD for one of those "half-baked" projects - that's almost the "common" price for top-notch FS-based counterparts (PMDG ngx base package 69.99USD). It's hard to understand that some X-Plane developers say something like" X-Plane market is different from FS market since X-Plane market has smaller size of audience".

IMHO both X-Plane market and FS market belong to flight simulation market, and the prices of projects from both platforms should be in the same level according to the quality.

Exactly

[Anxu00 176]

Aaargh.... what a shame, he is going down the Flightfactor road of churning out one pay-ware after another instead of dealing with his A320/A330 systems which are in dire need of improvement and refinement. This kind of philosophy just gives X-Plane a bad name as a systems-light platform, whose last best hope is IXEG.

I also agree.  Jar A320, FlightFactor 777 and 757 are sitting gathering eDust in my system.  Too many little annoyances add up be a Whisky Tango Foxtrot, as in I don't have time for this, and oh my allotted sim time has just been flushed down the drain.

[alpha12125 213]

Totally agree. This is a troubling trend IMHO.

I totally agree with you

Aaargh.... what a shame, he is going down the Flightfactor road of churning out one pay-ware after another instead of dealing with his A320/A330 systems which are in dire need of improvement and refinement. This kind of philosophy just gives X-Plane a bad name as a systems-light platform, whose last best hope is IXEG.

If people did not buy buy half finished addons then the devs would have to change. I think once IXEG release their 737 that will raise the bar. I am not buying any planes until that get's released.

 

 

I do agree with the general feeling that we want a complete systems simulation, but i can also understand his side.

 

He is a mostly a one man show, doing this all in his free time from his regular work, because belive it or not this work doesnt pay bills. On his forum he adressed this already when he announced the a330. What he said was basically that this:

 

Bugfixing and internal systems work is very tedious and if you work 10h a day, you don't always want to come home and try debug some problems or do try to work on fmc or other stuff where you don't see progress. He loves creating and this whole thing is his passion and not his work. He said he will get burned out and frustrated if he does do this too long. And personally i believe him, as i know this feeling very well. So what he does, is that he starts a new project that will motivate him again and allow him to step back one or two months from the other projects. And i can relate to that. He promised that he wouldn't abbandon the a320 when he started the a330 and in my opinion he stood by that word. Developing the A330 and the subsequent FBW port back to the A320 made it the best it ever was. Even the FMC updates improved it. I believe him when he says that he will never abandon his planes and that everything he learns or creates will be ported back into existing planes.

 

Now that being said i can understand the other side that you are expecting a full working product when you buy it, and i also believe that, without a sale, the planes are too expensive for what they offer and he needs to take that critisim. But to put into perspective, if i calculate correctly Jar started developing the A320 about the same time that IXEG started the 737. And with IXEG there were more people (albeit also part time afaik) working on the project. Now you realize, that we probably would even just start to hear about the A320 now, probably 2-3 years later as Airbus is alot harder to develop than Boeing.

 

FSX has been around for 10 years, and that in comparison gigantic market, has brought only a few passenger planes on the level of IXEG/PMDG. The q400, 737, 777, Concord, the old 747 if you dont mind the missing vc. The aerosoft airbusses are imho not on that level, allthough they outclass the jar ones. FSLABS will be the on that list once it gets released.

 

What i am trying to say is just that even though it is frustrating to have a plane with errors, IXEG will not change the game. It will most likely be the best released plane for x-plane and after that there are no 10 planes in the pipeline. It will be nothing for one or two years again, if at all.

[deetee 164]

Nothing wrong with side projects, in fact Eugeny seems to have a new one every month! He certainly has no shortage of talent as a graphical artist and likes to innovate with new ideas in X-Plane. There are though legitimate systems issues (quite often the same exist on both the A320 and A330) that he doesn't seem interested in addressing, which is a real shame. The Qpac systems are more faithful to the original but lack the eye candy - maybe they should get together lol.

 

It does leave a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth, and I'm sorry to say that instead of investing in more X-Plane airliners I will vote with my wallet and grab the FS Labs A320 when it comes out.

[gcharrie 2]

+1 on the general feeling of this topic : new products are out or annonced but the a320 is still not flyable (for me)

 

I will buy another jardesign airplane when the a320 is usable. Serious support is essential, as an airliner with good FMC is complex to create.

 

But now I prefer to give my money to other add-on developers.

[alpha12125 213]

Nothing wrong with side projects, in fact Eugeny seems to have a new one every month! He certainly has no shortage of talent as a graphical artist and likes to innovate with new ideas in X-Plane. There are though legitimate systems issues (quite often the same exist on both the A320 and A330) that he doesn't seem interested in addressing, which is a real shame. The Qpac systems are more faithful to the original but lack the eye candy - maybe they should get together lol.

 

It does leave a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth, and I'm sorry to say that instead of investing in more X-Plane airliners I will vote with my wallet and grab the FS Labs A320 when it comes out.

of course i am totally with you. I have the same love hate relationship with JAR as has everyone else. I kinda have a softspot for him though as he does provide updates constantly. And since on the background, all his aircrafts are quite similar (hence fmc errors being identical in both planes), it will be the same with the A340. So all improvements will  trickle down the product range. I agree that this is not satifying for everybody but better than the alternative. Once that changes, and moves towards more the FF business model of leaving old planes (still waiting on a word if the 767 fmc updates will move to the 757) then I am inclined to agree. The thing is though that for x-plane there is the 737 and then the dc-6 which are announced for 2016 after that i do not know what is sheduled for release in the forseable future.

 

While this does oddly sound like i am defending JAR i am all for voting with the wallet if you are not happy. I never bought any JAR product on release, only on the .org sale add a big rebate. That was when i felt the price/performance ratio was ok.

[Alpha Floor 237]

Interesting topic.

 

I like X-Plane 10, a lot. In fact FSX might be the only program that's keeping me from having an all Linux PC. I wish there were really top-level airliner simulations on XP10 to be able to get rid of FSX; sadly at the moment there aren't any.

 

It's also true that FSX being as massive in the flight simulation world, there still aren't THAT many top-notch airliner simulation as one could think. There are quite a few though. But in the end this is a niche market.

 

Regarding "one man" developers, Level-D with Daryl Shuttleworth is, I believe, a largely one man developer and the Level-D 767 is definitely what I consider a "top-notch" simulation. Sure it's 10 years old, the VC is not really functional and its textures look dated, but it's proof of what a single person can achieve. In fact, I believe their 767 is better, systems-wise, than FF's 757. Sure enough Level-D has only released ONE product.

 

My hopes are put on IXEG's 737. On the mid-term, I also hope PMDG will start porting their stuff to X-Plane. If that happens, I will wave FSX (or P3D for that matter) goodbye.