Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Orlaam

Displaced Runway(s) and mismatched ILS data

Recommended Posts

This morning flying into KORD for the first time in the NGX I ran into an issue. My navdata is what came with the plane. I already have all the paper charts for a period in 2007 so I don't want to have new navdata and old FSX database issues.

 

Anyhow I find out runway 9L is in use. So I program runway 9L into the FMC as ILS approach. Well the visibility is nothing until 800' AGL so I'm confused as to why the LOC isn't coming alive. It wasn't the best approach since based on winds I expected a different runway (14) but whatever. So I took the time to pull up the map and peek at the ILS frequencies. It's the same as my chart, 110.50 but the FMC lists 111.75. So I had tuned the right ILS in but despite the mismatch it wasn't lined up. So I ended up going around and on the turn back captured the LOC. Come to find out the runway is way off to the left according to the FMC programmed database. Had I let RNAV carry me down I'd be way off. I was way off anyhow with the ILS.

 

I haven't had this problem with other airports. That database that came with the NGX should be really close to the FSX data shouldn't it? How do I fix that? I could understand a major overhaul of the airport but it's not that old compared to FSX. Confused.

 

Also can I find navdata that matches the time period to FSX or no? I'd like to put that in the FMC


- Chris

Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | Intel Core i9 13900KF | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB | 64GB DDR5 SDRAM | Corsair H100i Elite 240mm Liquid Cooling | 1TB & 2TB Samsung Gen 4 SSD  | 1000 Watt Gold PSU |  Windows 11 Pro | Thrustmaster Boeing Yoke | Thrustmaster TCA Captain X Airbus | Asus ROG 38" 4k IPS Monitor (PG38UQ)

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU - Retired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


That database that came with the NGX should be really close to the FSX data shouldn't it?

 

No. The NGX nav data without updates should be around 2011, I think. FSX data is around 2005.

 

 

 


How do I fix that?

 

Update your nav data and airport files.

 

 

 


I could understand a major overhaul of the airport but it's not that old compared to FSX. Confused.

 

Changing a frequency on a LOC array isn't that complex, actually. They change on occasion around the world.


Kyle Rodgers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know they can change the frequencies. I was in amateur radio for years. Radio is pretty easy for me to understand. What I'm confused about is how updating the NGX database to get a newer AIRAC is gonna help with displaced runways and ILS frequencies. It's already 6 years newer according to you, so adding more years to that means more misalignment. Right?

 

Do I simply need to update the magvar file in FSX for the runway displacement? And unless I change the default data with that guys other navdata on his website, the ILS and other things will be off, correct?? Or simply change the info with AFCADs.


- Chris

Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | Intel Core i9 13900KF | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB | 64GB DDR5 SDRAM | Corsair H100i Elite 240mm Liquid Cooling | 1TB & 2TB Samsung Gen 4 SSD  | 1000 Watt Gold PSU |  Windows 11 Pro | Thrustmaster Boeing Yoke | Thrustmaster TCA Captain X Airbus | Asus ROG 38" 4k IPS Monitor (PG38UQ)

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU - Retired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Do I simply need to update the magvar file in FSX for the runway displacement?

 

Would help.

 

 

 


And unless I change the default data with that guys other navdata on his website, the ILS and other things will be off, correct??

 

Could be. I'm not sure who "that guy" is though, so I can't say for sure.

 

 

 


Or simply change the info with AFCADs.

 

This usually gets you the best result.


Kyle Rodgers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning flying into KORD for the first time in the NGX I ran into an issue

Since 2009 I have used FSX KORD, FSDT(Payware) and FSDT Update (Payware). The three airports have never agreed with the real KORD or the Navigraph data for the FMC. KORD is constantly doing some kind of updating - building new runways, closing runways, renumbering runways, changing frequencies, and doing the same type of stuff to the taxiways. I imagine that everything in the real word agrees but in the sim world it is a mess. Even payware airports can't keep up with what is going on at KORD. I don't believe the two parallel NE-SW runways and the two parallel NW-SE runways have changed. The four parallel W-E have changed considerably. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyle, that guy is the one who releasing the magvar and other files. I don't recall his website. He has a BGL file that updates navdata on some level but it can cause problems. I don't recall his name and I'm on my phone.

 

Micheal, it sounds like I need to stop servicing KORD ;-) lol


- Chris

Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | Intel Core i9 13900KF | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB | 64GB DDR5 SDRAM | Corsair H100i Elite 240mm Liquid Cooling | 1TB & 2TB Samsung Gen 4 SSD  | 1000 Watt Gold PSU |  Windows 11 Pro | Thrustmaster Boeing Yoke | Thrustmaster TCA Captain X Airbus | Asus ROG 38" 4k IPS Monitor (PG38UQ)

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU - Retired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Micheal, it sounds like I need to stop servicing KORD ;-) lol
I believe the only E-W runway that has remained the same for FSX default to real world KORD is 10-28in FSX or 10L-28R in the real world. It is the long one of about 13000 ft. I still use KORD but I stay away from the north E-W runways which are short. The two southern parallel runways are not in FSX default nor in the updated KORD from FSDT. I just stay from anything that is an E-W runway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the only E-W runway that has remained the same for FSX default to real world KORD is 10-28in FSX or 10L-28R in the real world. It is the long one of about 13000 ft. I still use KORD but I stay away from the north E-W runways which are short. The two southern parallel runways are not in FSX default nor in the updated KORD from FSDT. I just stay from anything that is an E-W runway.

Yes, the default FSX KORD bears little resemblance to the airport as it currently exists.

 

Runway 14L / 32R is permanently closed - (though for some reason, the ILS approaches are still shown in current NOS charts).

 

14R / 32L is about 3000 feet shorter than it used to be.

 

The three southern runways are either completely rebuilt, or entirely new. In fact the middle runway of the southern group, 10C / 28C occupies land where hangars and parking ramps used to exist. (And still do in default FSX / P3D)

 

Many ILS frequencies have changed.

 

Unfortunately, no payware KORD add-on reflects the current layout accurately. The construction is continuously ongoing....


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Runway 14L / 32R is permanently closed - (though for some reason, the ILS approaches are still shown in current NOS charts).
I don't know what NOS means. On the FAA charts it is shown in the Airport Diagram and still shows ILS Approaches to both runways. Same on the LIDO charts. And it still shows ILS Approaches for both runways in the Navigraph FMS data as of 1602 and it is still on the Google satellite image with no Xs painted on it (I don't know the date of the image). I guess a lot of things besides FSDT KORD UPDATE need to be updated. I thought it was still there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what NOS means. On the FAA charts it is shown in the Airport Diagram and still shows ILS Approaches to both runways. Same on the LIDO charts. And it still shows ILS Approaches for both runways in the Navigraph FMS data as of 1602 and it is still on the Google satellite image with no Xs painted on it (I don't know the date of the image). I guess a lot of things besides FSDT KORD UPDATE need to be updated. I thought it was still there.

NOS is the US government charting service. They provide the free approach charts available from sites like Skyvector, Airnav etc.

 

14L/32R is definitely and permanently closed, and has been since May 1, 2015. The google Maps photos may not be recent enough to show anything.

 

Here are the NOTAMS for the associated approach navaids, just downloaded today, March 2nd:

 

ORD NAV ILS RWY 14L LOC/GP/DME/IM DECOMMISSIONED 1505011425-PERM

 

ORD NAV ILS RWY 32R GP/LOC/OM DECOMMISSIONED 1505011404-PERM

 

These state that the ILS Localizers, Glideslopes and Outer Markers were permanently decommissioned on May 1, 2015. There are other NOTAMS on the same site indicating that the associated approach lighting systems, runway lighting, and PAPI lights were all permanently decommissioned last August. It's a mystery as to why all of the charting and Nav data sites still show the two ILS approaches, as the associated ground equipment does not even exist anymore.


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To Michael Cubine:

Michael,

I flew the PMDG LH Cargo B777 yesterday from Fairbanks to Chicago and ran into the same problem (misplaced runway and incorrect ILS frequency). I used runway 28L and was at least 4 to 500 feet to the left of the runway, of course never intercepted the glideslope. I als have FSDT KORD (payware) and thought that that should take care of the FSX / Navigraph rwy/ILS problem. Obviously NOT.

Q: have you done anything else to utilize runways at O'Hare? Or are you still staying away from the E - W runways?

Btw, the FMC ILS frequency was 110.75, ident IIDN and in FSX 110.5 ident IIAC

Thanks for reply


Brgds

Juergen Mader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I used runway 28L and was at least 4 to 500 feet to the left of the runway,

 

I don't think hijacking an old thread is the best way to address a problem, but let me give it a try.

FSDT Ohare is out of date, both runways and even taxiways are different now.  When you use current navdata you need to understand the differences. Best way is to look at the FSDT documentation, note page 6 is the airport diagram for the scenery. Note it has a RNW 28 and a RNW 27L as the only two E W runways.  Most approaches I fly are to RNW 28 which is known today as RNW 28R.  Therefore, you should select the approach for RNW 28R landing at the scenery RNW 28, and it works without frequency changing or damaging the grass.


Dan Downs KCRP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q: have you done anything else to utilize runways at O'Hare? Or are you still staying away from the E - W runways?

Btw, the FMC ILS frequency was 110.75, ident IIDN and in FSX 110.5 ident IIAC

Thanks for reply

I believe downscc answered your question about 28L. And yes, I still stay away from the E-W short runways and the NW-SE runways. The NE-SW runways are still okay to use. FSDT is going to update KORD sometime in the future but unless KORD stops messing with the runways, it will probably be out of dare when it is released

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...