Flaps - could someone kindly explain something

[pschlute 37]

 

 

The FLEX is always entered in degs F. The tutorial pdf suggests entering 54 (that wouldn't be degs C). If you enter a higher than ambient temp, thrust is reduced

 

FLEX temperature can only be input in degrees celcius. There is no option to use F instead. The range you can enter is from current ambient to 70 degrees celcius.

 

The tutorial is indeed suggesting 54 degrees celcius.

 

The reduced thrust is the whole point of entering a FLEX temperature.

[martinlest2 58]

Oh, OK! I was sure I had read somewhere that this entry was degs F, but perhaps not.
 

 

The reduced thrust is the whole point of entering a FLEX temperature.

 

 

 

I know (I said that somewhere above), but in practice it makes little difference for the purposes of this discussion, as for the past several flights, (with the nose-up issues), I have been adding the current temperature in FLEX, in degs F, i.e. about 55.

 

Is it the difference between the FLEX entry and the OAT entry that has an bearing on the thrust, or is that difference between FLEX and the ambient temperature in the PMDG model not relevant, thrust being purely based purely on the FLEX value one enters? In other words, I have been using about 55 for FLEX and 10C or so for OAT. If I use the same figure for FLEX but change OAT to, say, 45 degs C, would that impact the TO thrust? I have been assuming yes.. (Always referring to what's modelled in the PMDG, rather than real world).

 

I am going to try changing the CI, as that is one thing I have been doing differently...

[pschlute 37]

I don't know what bearing the OAT input will have if any. You should always use the correct OAT anyway.

 

If you have been using 55 C for FLEX you will be using a reduced t/o thrust so that is not what is causing your pitch problems.

 

I would suggest you recalibrate your joystick. Make sure you have nothing set up in the saitek software for elevator axis.or delete any if you have. Then without starting FS9 go to your windows "devices and printers" section and calibrate your joystick axes. Then open FS9  and in the assignments section do the same. Then delete and reselect the joystick axis for elevator, setting the null zone and sensitivity as appropriate.

 

Start the sim and load the MD-11 with engines running, don't load the cessna first. In spot view have a look at the elevator movement and see if it looks right.

[martinlest2 58]

Hi again. The problem there is that I have no such issue with any other a/c, including other PMDG planes, only the MD11. The X52 is calibrated fine, I believe, with or without FS9 running, I checked this just yesterday.

 

I probably need to make a Saitek profile specific for the MD-11... if I delete elevator axis globally, that will 'mess up' other a/c (which currently respond just fine to the X52 when I rotate and thereafter: actually the MD-11 rotates fine too, it's afterwards that things go slightly awry).

 

If I also delete elevator control for FS9 assignments, as you suggest, then you mean I need FSUIPC to take over this function for all a/c?

 

The bottom line is that I doubt all the changes to my X52 and flight control setup can really be necessary (the areas you describe I am not at all confident about in any case - I am pretty sure I should just end up with a/c no longer responding to any elevator commands!), because last time I flew the MD11 regularly (a long while back, as I had been living abroad until very recently, without the MD11 on my temporary, 'better-then-nothing' FS9 laptop setup), I know I didn't have this problem. And even last week, I flew it on some days with no such issue either, with my hardware settings just as they are now. I will carry on trying to fix this with settings in the software for now, anyway.

 

Thanks for the advice. Always appreciated.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

If I also delete elevator control for FS9 assignments, as you suggest, then you mean I need FSUIPC to take over this function for all a/c?

 

"Then delete and reselect the joystick axis for elevator, setting the null zone and sensitivity as appropriate."

 

He was saying that you should remove the axis and re-select it. To me, that's akin to the (usually useless) uninstall/reinstall technique to solve problems, but at least it's not as time consuming.

 

 

 

because last time I flew the MD11 regularly [...], I know I didn't have this problem.

 

This would imply that the problem lies elsewhere, then.

[martinlest2 58]

OK, yes, you're right. I'll keep testing this with different entries in the FMC though first, as I say.

[BlueStar 323]

Martin,

 

You say that you set the weight "manually'.  Does this mean that you are not using the MD-11 "Load Manager"?

 

Unless you are using a program such as Topcat, I highly recommend that you use the PMDG "Load Manager" once the aircraft is setting at the gate.  Load the MD-11 into your program from the startup screen.  I use "PMDG MD-11F Short Ground Turn".   Using the "Load Manager" load your weight using "2/3 Cargo" and your Fuel using the "Fuel Selector".  The "Load Manger" will give you the correct ZFWCG/TOCG readings.  Load these reading into the FMC and set your trim accordingly per the FMC.  Use 20 degrees flaps.  Don't use "Flex".

 

On Heavy jets fly the Flight Director, that is how it is done in the real world.  On retracting the Flaps, follow the green trend line.  What I mean by this is do not raise the flaps until the green trend line touches the "Pink" dot.  

 

Try the above and let me know how it flies.  The PMDG MD-11 flies very well and PMDG did an excellent job with it.   :smile:

 

blaustern 

[martinlest2 58]

Hi, and thanks...

 

I don't think I said I set the weight manually (not even sure what that means) - I can't find any comment like that. I did say that I managed the systems on the overhead panel manually... Yes, I use the MD-11 Load Manager. However I am using it slightly differently from the way you describe: I set everything there before I load up the MD-11. Since there is the button to save the info to the aircraft.cfg file (is that optional or - I assume - essential?), nothing saved to that file after loading the MD-11 would be read (would it?). I presume the PMDG programme uses the data saved there at some stage. (Or not??).

 

I tried CI at 50 just now and I also switched the systems to automatic on the O/H panel, to see what happened. But no change, still I really have to push the nose down after take-off. I only read your reply a little later, so I am not sure what the FD was doing - I'll pay more attention next time, but my feeling is that if I follow the FD I'll be going up vertical, like a Saturn 5 rocket (not for long though!). But I'll check. Maybe not. It looks catastrophic though from outside - I never see an a/c at that attitude (except on 'Air Crash Investigation'!)..

 

The pitch problem, I repeat, is only apparent jsut after TO. The rotation is quite normal, there no question of tail scrape or whatever. And once I have pushed the nose down to under 20 degs and tamed the trim way down, the aircraft flies just great by hand, and also after, on AP. Yes, PMDG's detailed work on this is VERY impressive, a work of art really, I agree.

 

What is "PMDG MD-11F Short Ground Turn", BTW?

 

Oh, one more thing. When I enter the values from the load utility into the CDU on INIT p2 (the ZFWCG value into 'ZFWCG' and the ZFW value into 'BLST IN ZFW', the TOGW value that shows is always different from the one I noted down in the load edit utility. Do I over-write the value in the CDU with the one that I copied down from the load edit window?

 

:wink:

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I set everything before I load up the MD-11. Since there is the option to save the aircraft.cfg file

 

Running the load manager as an admin?

[martinlest2 58]

I don't know - I don't actually right click on the shortcut and choose that option. I need to be doing that then? If so, I'd forgotten that point...

 

I usually choose Random Freight or load relatively lightly (as I think I said, I rarely fly the PAX version, as none are in service now and I'm a bit OCD about flying a/c that no longer fly in the real-world!!) with 1/3 fuel or less (usually rather more than I need for my flight, which are short or medium haul on the whole). I could try loading up more cargo, (maybe putting it in forward holds - though the programme would doubtless compensate for that of course). I wonder if the a/c would be so keen to climb so fast if it were quite a bit heavier... Shouldn't really make any difference in practice with this plane though, surely?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I don't know - I don't actually right click on the shortcut and choose that option. I need to be doing that then? If so, I'd forgotten that point...

 

If it's not being run as an admin (or you don't have specific admin rights to the folder), the weights may not be saved. If you're then using perf data based on that weight, but the plane is lighter than that perf data, you're going to see what you're seeing.

[martinlest2 58]

OK, great. The next thing to try.. though I just checked the file properties of the aircraft.cfg file and the file date is the same as when I saved the data from the load editor, so I guess it is saving OK. Worth trying though.

[martinlest2 58]

Oh, one other thing, going back to my first question in this thread in fact. I am still a bit confused about the flap indicators in the flight instruments. Where is this explained in the pdf files? I can find a description of the flaps in the systems pdf, but specifically (sorry if it's there and I have missed it)

 

... what is the significance of the orange or green colours?

... SE is 'slats extend', for the descent? That appears at 280KIAS. Is that right - it seems a high speed for slats

... what is GE in green at 260KIAS? Or GR and FR?

.... what do I do as I pass 'F15'?

 

and so on. If there is a document with all this explained, I'd like to get this clear in my mind.

 

Thank you!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

... what is the significance of the orange or green colours?

 

Amber (orange) means a condition has not been met. Green is a condition has been met.

 

 

 

... SE is 'slats extend', for the descent? That appears at 280KIAS. Is that right - it seems a high speed for slats

 

Slat Extended max speed. 

 

 

 

... what is GE in green at 260KIAS? Or GR and FR?

 

Gear Extended speed (max). Gear retraction (min). Flap Retraction (min).

 

 

 

.... what do I do as I pass 'F15'?

 

Ignore it for takeoff. All you need for departure is FR and SR.

 

Tutorial 1, page 22 covers a lot of this stuff.

[martinlest2 58]

Thank you. Makes much more sense when they are min and max, rather than required, as I had assumed! I'll look again at tutorial 1 - I have it printed off somewhere. (Was there a tutorial 2 - announced as 'advanced' somewhere I think?).