ProATC won't work with (PFPX plan and) Airbus 319...?!

[Dutch1 24]

What i do with any plan that i use, no matter what program i use to make it , copy and past into PRO ATC, with out sids and stars. Save it ,then contact clearance and let them choose the RW and SID if there is one.

[Bobsk8 12,489]

What i do with any plan that i use, no matter what program i use to make it , copy and past into PRO ATC, with out sids and stars. Save it ,then contact clearance and let them choose the RW and SID if there is one.

 

Yes.

[Guest]

What i do with any plan that i use, no matter what program i use to make it , copy and past into PRO ATC, with out sids and stars. Save it ,then contact clearance and let them choose the RW and SID if there is one.

 

Ok, I wonder how you do that because as soon as I import or copy paste a plan into ProATC I see it automatically selects a SID and STAR, no matter what. So there is no way I can save a plan without SID and STAR. Example, just now I created a plan in PFPX from EHAM to ENGM. I only copied this part:

 

ANDIK UZ733 KONOM UZ704 AMADA Z704 PIPEX M609 RIPAM

 

and pasted it into ProATC and it immediately selected the ANDI1N SID and RIPA3L STAR. And btw PFPX itself had chosen the SPY2V SID, so again a difference between the two programs.

 

The way you say it ("Save it ,then contact clearance and let them choose the RW and SID if there is one") makes it sound as if the SID (and STAR) are chosen on the fly by ATC later on somehow... On my PC however the SID and STAR are chosen before I can save a plan in ProATC. I must be missing something obvious. Or maybe I am making things too complicated and simply use ProATC and forget about all the rest.

[Pete Dowson 558]

... now all I am left wondering about is: is there a good reason to keep on using PFPX...? Seems it only makes things more complicated, adding extra steps I don't really need. Or is the PFPX plan always far superior to the ProATC plan...?

 

Last question first: no, I don't think the PFPX plan is superior. In fact sometimes the one it produces automatically is awful. But it isn't the quality of its plans I use it for. It is for other things -- passenger and fuel computations, weather considerations in terms of timings. And I use it in cooperation with TOPCAT with which I can actually get the loadsheets, trim and engine settings (which I need for my CDU entries), and for automatically loading the fuel and passengers, in the right places, in the aircraft.

 

In the end it's all to do with realism.

 

One way to get a sensible plan is to get real world plans. Sometimes I do that and just paste them into PFPX, so I can still use it for all the other stuff it does. A good site for real world plans is

 

http://www.edi-gla.co.uk/fpl/index.php

 

I think you'll need to register to log in, but it is free.

 

Pete

[Dutch1 24]

J van E, try copy and paste instead EHAM ANDIK UZ733 KONOM UZ704 AMADA Z704 PIPEX M609 RIPAM ENGM...add the dep  & arr airport to your copied plan. So..... copy plan- Start PRO ATC-New flight plan-Edit- Paste your plan-Load into flight plan...should be exactly as you pasted. Then you can add your own STAR/SID or let ATC assign them after you call for clearance.... Try it :smile:  :smile:  :smile:  

 

 

 

OK Edit::: I see what you mean when PRO ATC gave you the different SID and STAR, but you can change that or leave them blank, and then  let PRO ATC choose for you. I think they still will give you SID after you ask for clearance....might be the same that it chose in the first place, not sure, but i'm betting thats the way it is in the real world, all depends on RW in use and weather.

[Guest]

J van E, try copy and paste instead EHAM ANDIK UZ733 KONOM UZ704 AMADA Z704 PIPEX M609 RIPAM ENGM...add the dep & arr airport to your copied plan. So..... copy plan- Start PRO ATC-New flight plan-Edit- Paste your plan-Load into flight plan...should be exactly as you pasted. Then you can add your own STAR/SID or let ATC assign them after you call for clearance.... Try it :smile: :smile: :smile:

 

 

 

OK Edit::: I see what you mean when PRO ATC gave you the different SID and STAR, but you can change that or leave them blank, and then let PRO ATC choose for you. I think they still will give you SID after you ask for clearance....might be the same that it chose in the first place, not sure, but i'm betting thats the way it is in the real world, all depends on RW in use and weather.

I decided to go the easy way which also looks like the most realistic way to me (flying in Europe only). I am doing a flight right now and I simply did it like this: create a new flight in ProATC, choose departure and destination, click on re-calculate (I have auto off: might as well turn it on) and then I save the flight without looking at anything. After that I contact clearance, let it surprise me with the runway and SID they chose, load the generated PROATCXCLR plan into the Airbus MCDU (like you would load a company route), add the runway and SID and off I go. I will add the STAR as soon as ProATC tells me which one to use. Works like a charm and as I said, seems quite realistic. I kinda like to be surprised by ATC with the correct the SID and STAR instead of knowing it all even before I load P3D.

[Dutch1 24]

hey J , can't you just create your flight plan in PFPX without SID STAR and paste into PRO ATC, don't re-calculate, choose no SID or STAR, save. Then start up your flight with that saved flight plan, program you GTN750 with that plan. Then call for clearance, PRO ATC should give you clearance with SID and STAR with RW. These SID and STAR will always change according to the weather...no closing your eyes to keep it real...lol... 

EDIT :Well i'm going to answer my own question, no you can't. When i plug in a flight plan PRO ATC will give you a SID and STAR if there avalible. You can not delete those SIDS or STARS, you can change them but you can not cancel them.  If you try and save the the flight you get an error " Unable to find a SID/STAR transition,aborting" even if you edit it to remove any of the waypoints for thew SID and STAR, this is not real... I want to put a plan in with out a SID and STAR and be able to save it. Then i want to "go fly" with just the flight plan waypoints, no SID or STAR assigned until after i have contacted clearance.....won't work, at least i can't get it to

[Guest]

 

 

EDIT :Well i'm going to answer my own question, no you can't. When i plug in a flight plan PRO ATC will give you a SID and STAR if there avalible. You can not delete those SIDS or STARS, you can change them but you can not cancel them. If you try and save the the flight you get an error " Unable to find a SID/STAR transition,aborting" even if you edit it to remove any of the waypoints for thew SID and STAR, this is not real... I want to put a plan in with out a SID and STAR and be able to save it. Then i want to "go fly" with just the flight plan waypoints, no SID or STAR assigned until after i have contacted clearance.....won't work, at least i can't get it to

 

That's what I found out too.  :wink: It is indeed impossible. But well, not a real problem for me: I do as I said, let it create a plan without looking at it. It's the closest thing to real life imho: other ATC addons force you to plan almost everything yourself beforehand which I don't like at all. Makes it feel like you are flying a scripted flight which you scripted yourself. Imho ProATC is by far the easiest and most realistic ATC addon. Well, easiest when you know how it works with loading plans LOL I also like the very simple interface: you can do almost everything with the 1 and 2 keys: other addons sometimes have HUGE interfaces onscreen.

 

Just finished another flight the way I described above (with entering the runway and STAR when I was told so by ATC) and I love it. Everything went perfectly well, including the change of altitudes etc.

[Dutch1 24]

Yep J,didn't really bother me until i starting reading this post...lol. I have asked  the same questions over at the PRO ATC forum, will wait and see what they have to say...will report back

[Guest]

 

 

didn't really bother me until i starting reading this post...lol

 

Oops, sorry about that... :wink: Maybe they will add a feature to disable SID and STAR in the saved plan but again, it's not a big deal. Just don't look at it LOL

[Dutch1 24]

LOL..I guess your idea is the best we can do...we'll call it "no Peak"...lol...and i'm still waiting for a answer over at PRO ATC forum...forgot to sign my name...geez..instead of answering my post he gave me a lecture about signing my name   :Shame On You:  :Shame On You:  :Shame On You:  

[Dutch1 24]

"The current release requires a SID/STAR entry albeit somewhat irrelevant as this has changed to a dynamic process upon receiving clearance.

Next update has the SID/STAR boxes removed. As long as your flightplan starts at SID exit and STAR entry ProATC will assign a procedure automatically. These may be changed upon request." this is what Stephen had to say over at the forums

[Bobsk8 12,489]

LOL..I guess your idea is the best we can do...we'll call it "no Peak"...lol...and i'm still waiting for a answer over at PRO ATC forum...forgot to sign my name...geez..instead of answering my post he gave me a lecture about signing my name   :Shame On You:  :Shame On You:  :Shame On You:  

 

It is very clearly spelled out in the forum rules. 

[Dutch1 24]

Well Bob,now that we cleared that up, I see your a beta tester for Pro ATC...can you please tell me what this means? ""The current release requires a SID/STAR entry albeit somewhat irrelevant as this has changed to a dynamic process upon receiving clearance."

 

 

Robert McDuff

[Guest]

It means what it says. The current version of ProATC apparently assigns SIDs and STARs dynamically 'on the fly' when you receive clearance but the planner still has the by now irrelevant requirement to have a SID and STAR in the plan. The next version won't have that requirement anymore and so that will be exactly what we want.

Good to know though about that dynamic process: this means the SID an STAR you see in the planner can be disregarded and ignored (don't peak ) because they are not set in stone and may be changed during clearance. So in fact we already have what we want!

 

This also clarifies why ProATC changed the SID and STAR of the imported PFPX plan. You can indeed simply import a PFPX plan and then save it unaltered and without bothering with the SID and STAR. ProATC will assign the appropriate procedure in due time no matter what PFPX predicted while keeping the PFPX route itself completely as it is! This is in fact more realistic and not an error, as I thought, but in fact a realistic feature!