Model-only split-scimitar-winglets update

[Jimm 437]

Doubtful - just the angle you're seeing it from. There's no way you'd have mixed tips like that.

You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

-Jim

[scandinavian13 5,192]

You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

[Jimm 437]

As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

Then we will agree to disagree.  Tech speak aside, I know what I saw.

 

-Jim

[skylane182 12]

Hi,

Me too IMHO I'm not interested in a visual only B738 scimitar variant.

No sense for me...

I think that PMDG is a serious software house so they usually design tha most realistic fsx software vs real plane ... why they should begin to realize "eye-candy" versions of an aircraft with all wrong aerodynamics , uncorrect cockpit layout, unrealistic engine parameters (I mean not updated to the LEAP CFM56 version) and so on...

I hope that PMDG will continue to develop the best (most realistic)  fsx/PD addons and not "visual only" eye-candy replicas...

 Ciao

Andrea Buono

There is no new engine or updated cockpit layout on retrofittet 737NG. Yesterday I was onboard a ten year old 737-800 which got the split-scimitar-winglets.

 

And that we all are flying from the cockpit is no argument, because if that counts, we won't need any external model. Of course I would prefer an updated flightmodel, but pmdg has no time for that, and I assume the differences would be really barely noticeable.

 

And an NGX model update would not hold up the 747 development: At this time of the 747 development I expect that the 747 models are finished already. (They even did the 5th engine transport option which is in reality really rare to see)

So I thought maybe the modellers could do a visual SSW update for the NGX while the rest of the team works on the 747 programming.

 

best regards,

Mathias Mueller

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Then we will agree to disagree.  Tech speak aside, I know what I saw.

 

Except the tech speak is where the important issues are...

 

In order to do that, you'd be operating on a ferry permit. That would require operating the aircraft non-revenue, as you can't operate permitted maintenance ferries as revenue flights. Airlines already schedule as much time in a day out of their aircraft because an aircraft that's just sitting there isn't making money. An empty aircraft that's burning fuel is avoided at all costs. Along those lines, you might see it once or twice, but to see it routinely suggests there's something else at play.

 

Seeing that you're likely seeing it from one angle - which lends a reason to why you're noticing it only on one wing - all logic and science points to perspective illusion, followed by resolution of the cognitive dissonance.

 

 

There is no new engine or updated cockpit layout on retrofittet 737NG.

 

There actually is though...

 

 

 

And an NGX model update would not hold up the 747 development

 

It wouldn't? Interesting that you can make a statement like this without part of our internal process...hmm...

[skylane182 12]

Ok, I think that's a misunderstanding, of course there are 737NG with updated cockpit layout and SSW, but there are also a lot of operates who retrofit the SSW to old 737NG, and a lot of those don't get any new things in the cockpit, only the SSW.

 

No, of course I don't know the processes in your team, that's just an assumption, as I stated in the explanation.

 

In the end it will stay your descision, it would just be really nice to get such an update, of course we can't demand it, but a lot of people are interested in it.

 

best regards,

Mathias Mueller

[N405GJ 36]

I can see both sides of this conversation. Personally, I would also love to have an option for the SSW's. But on the other side of the coin, PMDG isn't known for doing things the Carenado way. For example, the 5th engine ferry pod was mentioned above. If it is done in typical PMDG fashion, it will effect the way the aircraft flies. This really is the best of both worlds. If PMDG were to choose to do the SSW's, with a proper air file for such an addition, that would justify a higher price. While I would like to see them on my NGX, I would prefer it to affect the aircraft performance accordingly. Most of us would not even be able to perceive the performance improvements, but it would be there. That's just what PMDG does. We expect nothing but the highest level of fidelity possible from PMDG. And that is their niche. Which they fulfill quite well. So that's my 2 cents worth.

[mwilk 1,100]

As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

I worked at DFW until January. United and Alaska had 737's with the split scimitar winglets, they always were on both wings.

[GACSavannah 227]

Doubtful - just the angle you're seeing it from. There's no way you'd have mixed tips like that.

 

You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

Actually a damaged winglet can be removed and the aircraft operated with the single remaining winglet in place through the CDL, depending upon WHICH winglet is installed ( Factory, Aviation Partners Blended, Single, Scimitar, etc ) and which STC ( if non factory) it is installed under. Some approved CDLs allow it with limitations and performance penalties, and some do not.

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[kevinh 409]

There actually is though...

Aircraft retrofitted with the split scimitar winglets won't also have the new flightdeck layout retrofitted too. There would be no economic benefit in changing that. No doubt there are detailed changes, such as on the FMC ident page.

 

While I'm not interested in having a visual only scimitar model, many others clearly are. I don't see any real difference between doing this and offering a visual only 747-400D with the 747v2.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Aircraft retrofitted with the split scimitar winglets won't also have the new flightdeck layout retrofitted too.

 

It's not a necessary upgrade, but if I'm taking an aircraft down for maint, the updated FD could also be an option. A number of airlines have been putting both mods in/on. So, you're right that a developer wouldn't have to update both items, but I'd argue that the visuals on the FD would be quicker than messing with the dynamics.

[kevinh 409]

It's not a necessary upgrade, but if I'm taking an aircraft down for maint, the updated FD could also be an option. A number of airlines have been putting both mods in/on. So, you're right that a developer wouldn't have to update both items, but I'd argue that the visuals on the FD would be quicker than messing with the dynamics.

Operators who opted for split scimitar winglet conversions early on wouldn't have had the option to have the new flightdeck anyway as that is much more recent on the production line. Maybe some operators have done both upgrades, but I suspect that would be for commonality reasons with new build aircraft, certainly not any economic benefit. So a split scimitar update with no flightdeck changes is a realistic combination. It may even be the most common variation.

 

I don't think modifying the FDE is that big a deal either, but of course the real issue is data. A developer happy to reverse engineer the FDE would not face the data cost problem. But then this thread is about adding a split scimitar visual model with no other changes, which is a reasonable compromise, assuming there are enough NGX users willing to pay for the expansion.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Operators who opted for split scimitar winglet conversions early on wouldn't have had the option to have the new flightdeck anyway as that is much more recent on the production line. Maybe some operators have done both upgrades, but I suspect that would be for commonality reasons with new build aircraft, certainly not any economic benefit. So a split scimitar update with no flightdeck changes is a realistic combination. It may even be the most common variation.

 

I'm not arguing that it's unrealistic to have a mix. Earlier BuNos can have the updated flight deck because it's been retrofitted by the operator, just like you can send an early-model 738 to get splits on the wing tips. Based on my earlier post, I think it's quite clear that I don't think that a mix is unrealistic. My original post was aimed at correcting the earlier statement that there is no current update to the flight deck, because that is false. That is all. Someone said an updated flight deck didn't exist. I corrected. Period. End. Done.