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clayton4115

will VR replace home cockpits?

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We are at an interesting time in regards to technology where VR is coming to the masses and with the progress of leapmotion to control your hands in VR, the question is, with VR you are "in" the game, so will this replace the home cockpit? 

 

already people have started to comment with the oculus rift DK2 that they are so much easier to do touch n gos and see the runway and they are now using this to practice for the real world and one guy commented that his instructor has stated his real world flights have improved drastically.

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I personally am torn... I have a very simple cockpit built using mostly Saitek gear, and having the feel of hitting switches is big.  Then again I borrowed a coworkers DK2 last weekend and did some flying with it, and in many ways it feels so much more realistic than just a screen in front of you.  I did not try it using the full version of FlyInside with a Leap Motion, perhaps that will be the piece that helps it be more real.  I'll be excited to try it with a Vive... perhaps I could combine both using the Vive's camera to show my physical cockpit for hitting switches.

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i personally think this will replace home cockpits, you are going to get everything except the tactile feel, who knows in years to come you may even feel the flip of the switch (similar to force feedback technology) time will tell, but my limited experience with using google cardboard and playing some dk2 fsx videos I found on youtube has convinced me this is the next "big" thing !
 

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With only 1% of PCs able to run VR kit at their best then Home cockpits are here to stay. Anyway isn't it better to really lean and press a switch rather than imagine you are?

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I think it depends on the cockpit. I made the decision to really go whole hog and build something that could pass for a C 182 cabin, and that's been a great experience. It's a particular type of the hobby that I wouldn't want to replace with a virtual experience: building the panel, cutting the 2x2s for the cabin frame, the lighting, etc. And side monitors for windows absolutely adds something peripherally, like last night when on a dawn approach into KSLC I could see out of the corner of my eye the shadows of the wheel pants just off the deck before touchdown.

 

But building something like that is a big commitment of time (and money, although EBay and elbow grease make it a lot more realistic that it could be). If I didn't have the room or time or patience or interest for that? I'd be all over VR. I would miss the tactile (it's great to hit that AP switch in real life, or turn the starter), but I'm sure tech will figure that out one day. (Just think of the applications in "other" virtual industries ...  :blink2: )

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I'd rather have a nice $100,000 home cockpit set-up over a VR headset! :wink:  But in all honesty, for something on a budget, it would be much easier to just go the VR route. Looking forward to trying it out myself, and seeing how it compares to the real world!

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VR will be another visual option, I don't think it will be more than niche even if costs dropped considerably.  I've tested VR units and the most I can do is no more than about an hour on my head before it becomes too uncomfortable.

 

It's a technology that is here to stay, but I don't think it will be widely used.  Long terms technology will be holographic projectors with tactile interaction.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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One day you will get connect directly to your brain no more gear, but wouldn't be as your imagination! LoL

I found this VR stuff on same path of 3D screen and it didn't catch the audience.

I am very impress by the 360 movie that will finally immerse people inside of a world and a story.

VR in simulation  it's not really the same emotion you will get inside of a cockpit and pull a cloche as the real thing, I like more to add motion system that radically change the feeling whatever if it's a racing car an aircraft a submarine etc.

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I'd rather have a nice $100,000 home cockpit set-up over a VR headset! :wink:  But in all honesty, for something on a budget, it would be much easier to just go the VR route. Looking forward to trying it out myself, and seeing how it compares to the real world!

 

if we all had a spare $100k i'm sure we would all go the home cockpit route, but VR is going to get to the closest as possible of being in your flightdeck for a couple of thousand dollars.

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One day you will get connect directly to your brain no more gear, but wouldn't be as your imagination!

 

That day is already upon us, has been for a while ... primary use has been for seriously injured and/or handicapped ... see HERE.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I have about $27,000 invested in my Flight Illusion C-182 setup with dual FFB controls. I built an I-7 5930k ,128 gigs MSI computer with a 55" Samsung monitor ,dual interconnected TRC rudder pedals, re-upolstered C-182 seats. I am only short a cabin. Just like simmers resisting an upgrade to Windows10, I will be fighting any change with me going to VR.

 

 

 

Bill Davis

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I'm quite sure it will one day it will.

It is cheaper and more versatile.

 

When you build a homecockpit you have to decide on the type of aircraft you want to build and then stick with it.

With VR you have no such restriction.

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I could go on and on about why VR is the future of simming but I am convinced that in 5 years most of us will be flying on VR.

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yep agree! and imagine what VR hardware will be available in 5 years time!

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I think CastAR may be a better solution for home cockpit use if you've already got hardware. Mix of virtual without losing sight of the real world.

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The problem with VR in its present form is 1. about only 1% of PCs in use are powerful enough to run it sufficiently well. 2. The view is generally quite pixelated and 3. After a relatively short time people become nauseated.

It will never "take-over" I think. It will find its niche. Same with PCs. If you believe the media they are already dead. Not so. PCs are the only computers that can run complicated simulation programmes with all the add-ons required.

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OK. As an owner of a DK2 until recently, I've used Flyinside a lot and watched both the Oculus Runtime and Flyinside develop. I gave it away to a friend and am now waiting for my pre-ordered CV1 to arrive. 

 

The real benefit right now, is that if you can position HOTAS controls realistically, then once you are "inside" then it's not a problem at all. I have a pair of Cougar MFCDs in position and the HOTAS Warthog set and once I can get the joystick adaptors made up to give a nice throw and lower the box under my Knees then the Leap motion I have will be mostly redundant. To be fair, the leap motion is the weak point, and Oculus' own pointing device is even less suitable for simulation. A tactile feedback glove with a lot more accuracy that Leap Motion now offers is needed.

 

Once you have that, and the software is written to allow the different tactile actions to operate various switches, then you're over the hill and away!

 

Seriously, I like helicopters, fast jets and the occasional Tube..(it's the day job). The various layouts of controls I can deal with as I built up a tidy seat/table combo that is adjustable and with Saitek providing the other controls I can set up anything from an Airbus (WARTHOG throttles work well) BOEING and fast jet. The WARTHOG is only a liability with the F16 as there is too much stick movement. There are parts to fix that out there too.

 

The combination of a rig to position controls and the Oculus/HIVE and Leap Motion or whatever places that will allow you to fly whatever you fancy whenever you wish.

 

Roll on July for me. Having said that I'll be busy taking folks on holiday then so might not use it much till Autumn!!!

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The problem with VR in its present form is 1. about only 1% of PCs in use are powerful enough to run it sufficiently well. 2. The view is generally quite pixelated and 3. After a relatively short time people become nauseated.

It will never "take-over" I think. It will find its niche. Same with PCs. If you believe the media they are already dead. Not so. PCs are the only computers that can run complicated simulation programmes with all the add-ons required.

1. While that may be true for the general population, what do you think it is for us flight simmers.  Most of us have really beefy machines.  10%, 25%, 50%?  Whatever it is for this audience, it's definitely higher than 1%.

2. It really does not compare to looking at a 4K monitor... it is so much lower res, and "pixelated".  I haven't tried a production unit, just DK2, but it does sound like it's improved.  And this is something that will continue to improve over time.  But yeah you won't have nearly the quality/sharpness today in VR as a regular monitor.

3. This definitely varies person to person, and application to application.  Some have people have no problems at all.  I've done hours in a DK2 with P3D and had no problems.  I've also done some VR roller coasters and gotten queasy.  The application and how the motion goes definitely affects the experience.

 

Also agree they will be niche, but so is PC gaming at this point.

 

The big thing that won me over was the immediate feel like it was a real plane.  I spawned in just using the default Extra in P3D and looking down the nose it just looked and felt real.  Even though the resolution was not as high as monitors, let alone real life.  I have never felt that same immersion in my generic home cockpit.  Tried with 3 monitors, tried with a large screen projected in front of me... neither compared to visually immerse me as VR.

 

I've been going back and forth between getting Vive or Oculus (as I'll only be able to do one and also want to upgrade to a Pascal card later this year).  After looking at a whole bunch of reviews I like everything about the Vive more, especially the possibility of being able to use the front camera to see my physical cockpit controls, but am actually leaning towards the Rift due to the comfort of the head strap.  If I can't wear it for 2-3 hours straight I don't think it's the right one for me.  Apparently my local Microsoft store has Vive demos going on so I may stop by to try it on and see how comfortable it is.

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can you please tell us about more about when you said "the possibility of being able to use the front camera to see my physical cockpit controls"

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 From the IGN Review: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/07/htc-vive-review

 

To address this at least partially, a passthrough camera on the front of the headset can be used to peek into reality by tapping the home button on either controller to bring up the menu, or double-tapping to enable a Predator-like color-tinged outline of your real environment overlaid on the virtual one. Note that this extremely handy feature (the sole purpose of the camera’s existence) is completely disabled by default, probably to avoid system conflicts that the software warns you about when you enable it in the preferences. I experienced no problems with it, though.

 

Also check this video out: (Note at about 2:50 he brings up the actual camera view, which currently follows the controller.)

 

I think this just shows what could possibly be implemented if you have an existing cockpit that you want to use with this.  I don't think using the camera would be that great to hit a switch in a full 737 cockpit, but a smaller Saitek based cockpit could easily work.

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oh yes i understand, good if you have an external MCP and or FMC like i do. 

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As noted, front-facing cameras are the way to go, and likely the best gateway to sitting in front of a physical panel and maintaining tactile engagement.

I'm intrigued by VR flight, and would especially like to try something like Condor, which I think would be a fantastic VR application!

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