P3D3.2 looks really good, but hesitations are really bad!

[Nemo 1,305]

After (full) upgrading from 3.1 to 3.2 P3D seems to be more stuttery as before in certain situations. I am still exploring what might be the cause of it. Will try some settings beeing suggested here. Thanks.

[Lorby_SI 2,036]

Hello Pete,

 

take a look at your Windows services too. For example GSX sound output is based on OpenAL and I have a lot of trouble with that one and my sound hardware. Some Licensing Service from Creative Labs is contantly running-and-failing at regular intervals. I can see these errors in the Eventlog and I could swear that these coincide with the longer stutters. In some instances it even crashes the sim (of that I am sure, the timestamps match exactly). IIRC I had this problem in V2 too, there even was an error message about it. I am starting to think that P3D is especially susceptible to issues in the underlying Windows system. I kept the simulator installation free of any other software not sim related, so it has to be some addon, driver or service problem methinks. And that is why some people have it and some don't - we would have to compile a comprehensive table of how users have their system set up and if they experience these stutters or not. The similarities and discrepancies then should point to probable culprits.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Process Lasso is a good utility for limiting which cores programmes run on. I use Hyper Threading on my CPU so this may not be suitable for you but I set the Affinity Mask in the P3D.cfg to 85 and then run ASN and TrackIR on logical threads(?) 3,4,5,6 and 7. Process Lasso starts up automatically with Windows and  applies the right cores whenever I start ASN and TrackIR. I went into more detail about this here:

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/484333-blurries/

 

I got all my info from SteveW and Nyxx pretty much.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks. I'll look into doing this sort of thing, maybe in FSUIPC instead though. However, I've now eliminated all the other processes -- with nothing else running except P3D the stuttering / hesitating is the same.

 

So the microstuttering issue bothered me as well. I did lots of testing and found that a few tweaks helped alleviate the microstuttering. I documented it in a post http://www.avsim.com/topic/477057-a-frame-time-analysis-of-p3d-v3-effects-of-cpu-affinity-frame-lock-and-ht/#entry3315905. My findings are in the first two pages, while others chime in for the rest.

 

I'll check that out too. Thanks.

 

take a look at your Windows services too. For example GSX sound output is based on OpenAL and I have a lot of trouble with that one. Some Licensing Service from Creative Labs is contantly running-and-failing at regular intervals. I can see these errors in the Eventlog and I could swear that these coincide with the longer stutters. In some instances it even crashes the sim (of that I am sure, the timestamps match exactly). IIRC I had this problem in V2 too, there even was an error message about it. I am starting to think that P3D is especially susceptible to issues in the underlying Windows system.

 

Another area for me to look at, for sure. Thanks.

 

Pete

[Howellerman 104]

Heya Pete, 

 

A simple thing that helped for my micro-stutters (which admittedly don't bother me as much as blurries) was turning my monitor frame rate down to 29, and locking frames as 24. Fortunately, turning your monitor rates down is a simple test.

 

I also use Process Lasso to get all non-P3D V3.2.2 threads off of logical processors 0 and 1.

 

For whatever reason it is smooth as silk unless I get into highly congested areas. Orbx SCA over metropolitan LA is a slide show, no matter what. 

 

Good luck!

[ryanbatc 12,775]

Does it go away if you set texture resolution to 1m?

[Pete Dowson 558]

A simple thing that helped for my micro-stutters (which admittedly don't bother me as much as blurries) was turning my monitor frame rate down to 29, and locking frames as 24. Fortunately, turning your monitor rates down is a simple test.

Good luck!

 

I use a projector, and I don't think that's an option, but I'll check. I'll try frame rate limit lower, though. I've been using 35 in NVI and now 30 in P3D -- the latter seems to give better results.

 

 

Does it go away if you set texture resolution to 1m?

 

No, it's exactly the same.

 

 

Thanks AviatorMoser. Best suggestions yet are from that thread:

 

Frame rate limit 30 in P3D, VSync off, FFTF = 0.01.

 

That's much smoother, but unfortunately some (less) of the microstuffers are there, and the up-to-1-second (or even more) hesitations are still there! :-(

 

The only thing which has worked so far is running with only default scenery -- i.e. a perfectly default SCENERY.CFG. I know that will still give me most of the FTX base textures as they go into the World or Global scenery folder I think. But with NO add-on scenery layers at all the result is as smooth as a baby's bottom with no stutters and no hesitations!

 

This was partly a relief as I was beginning to suspect a faulty video card or video driver!

 

Having found that I went through a long process or quartering the add-on layers, ony enabling 100 additional layers for each test (I have nearly 400 additional layers, and that's just for Europe!). I was hoping to narrow it down to a culiprit add-on, but alas, the elimination showed nothing -- the hesitations are still there no matter what.

 

I'm now considering trying to go back to the 3.1 Client, because some folks are saying some of this problem started when moving from 3.1 to 3.2.

 

I must admit, I'm nearing the point of giving up on P3D and going back to FSX-SE. :-(

 

Pete

[virtualstuff 750]

 

Do any of the experts out there have any advice for me, please?

 

Pete

 

PM sent

[AviatorMoser 353]

I use a projector, and I don't think that's an option, but I'll check. I'll try frame rate limit lower, though. I've been using 35 in NVI and now 30 in P3D -- the latter seems to give better results.

 

 

 

No, it's exactly the same.

 

 

Thanks AviatorMoser. Best suggestions yet are from that thread:

 

Frame rate limit 30 in P3D, VSync off, FFTF = 0.01.

 

That's much smoother, but unfortunately some (less) of the microstuffers are there, and the up-to-1-second (or even more) hesitations are still there! :-(

 

The only thing which has worked so far is running with only default scenery -- i.e. a perfectly default SCENERY.CFG. I know that will still give me most of the FTX base textures as they go into the World or Global scenery folder I think. But with NO add-on scenery layers at all the result is as smooth as a baby's bottom with no stutters and no hesitations!

 

This was partly a relief as I was beginning to suspect a faulty video card or video driver!

 

Having found that I went through a long process or quartering the add-on layers, ony enabling 100 additional layers for each test (I have nearly 400 additional layers, and that's just for Europe!). I was hoping to narrow it down to a culiprit add-on, but alas, the elimination showed nothing -- the hesitations are still there no matter what.

 

I'm now considering trying to go back to the 3.1 Client, because some folks are saying some of this problem started when moving from 3.1 to 3.2.

 

I must admit, I'm nearing the point of giving up on P3D and going back to FSX-SE. :-(

 

Pete

 

Pete,

 

Are clouds present in your tests? I've found P3D clouds to have a huge impact on fluidity and frame rates, much more so than in FSX:SE.

 

I did a comparison test here to show how P3D performs worse in cloudy conditions than FSX:SE (even when the latter has SGSAA enabled --  a no no for P3D).

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/480642-a-frame-time-analysis-of-p3d-v3-clouds/

 

[Pete Dowson 558]

Are clouds present in your tests? I've found P3D clouds to have a huge impact on fluidity and frame rates, much more so than in FSX:SE.

 

 

Yes. It's light scattered cumulus, just like outside today. I could test with completely clear weather, terminating ASN, but that seems a bit pointless to me -- more often than not when flying in Europe conditions will be a lot worse than this fine day, very rarely better!

 

If P3D can't handle cloud layers then I'm certainly skidaddling back to FSX-SE!

 

Pete

[AviatorMoser 353]

Yes. It's light scattered cumulus, just like outside today. I could test with completely clear weather, terminating ASN, but that seems a bit pointless to me -- more often than not when flying in Europe conditions will be a lot worse than this fine day, very rarely better!

 

If P3D can't handle cloud layers then I'm certainly skidaddling back to FSX-SE!

 

Pete

 

Well, I don't want to mislead you. I've had P3D behave with light cumuli. It's the overcast that kills me. Could just be me.

[virtualstuff 750]

Yes. It's light scattered cumulus, just like outside today. I could test with completely clear weather, terminating ASN, but that seems a bit pointless to me -- more often than not when flying in Europe conditions will be a lot worse than this fine day, very rarely better!

 

If P3D can't handle cloud layers then I'm certainly skidaddling back to FSX-SE!

 

Pete

 

 

Pete just sent my email as requested hope it's useful...

Yes. It's light scattered cumulus, just like outside today. I could test with completely clear weather, terminating ASN, but that seems a bit pointless to me -- more often than not when flying in Europe conditions will be a lot worse than this fine day, very rarely better!

 

If P3D can't handle cloud layers then I'm certainly skidaddling back to FSX-SE!

 

Pete

 

I'm running ASN 5 layers plus volumetric fog smooth with complex stuff at 40 fps :-)

[SteveW 1,792]

 

4 core with HT capability?

 

This is what I would do first, setting one of two ways to use affinity correctly on a 4 core with HT.

 

Set HT=On.

 

1. Use three cores with AM=116 and leaves one whole core free (core zero, LPs 0 and 1). This leaves a hole in front of the cores hosting the sim, for the jobscheduler to drop processes into. This way is better if you have any 'aggressive' addon exe's that may during the use of the sim, demand high throughput. 116 allocates four LPs of the last three cores. You can also restrict all addons to core 0 with an AM=3=(11) can improve matters slightly.

 

 

2. Use four cores for the sim. Use AM=85, and keep all addons above core zero

(LPs 0 and 1). Use a batch file to start other exe's with affinity to use only cores 1,2,3 (LPs 2,3,4,5,6,7). Background threads take seconds to complete so we can embroil some addon activity onto the background threads cores.

 

 

Keep stuff from running on the core hosting the first sim thread, utilise a free core with aggressive addons, spread over four cores otherwise. Enable four LPs. If four LPs must be enabled on three cores, group the second and third jobs (AM116) of the sim since when the third job is demanding maximum throughput, job two is more or less dormant.

[Pete Dowson 558]

4 core with HT capability?

 

I've just added the ability in FSUIPC to set the Affinity Mask for programs started via its "RunPrograms" options -- ALL my external processes to FSX or P3D are started that way, so it suits me fine that way. No need for any other utility for me!

 

However, I seriously doubt this will help stop the jerks and hesitations with P3Dv3.2. I'm giving it another day of tests -- change to HT enabled, and maybe try P3D3.1 instead of 3.2, but then it's definitely back to FSX-SE for me!

 

Thanks,

Pete

[SteveW 1,792]

Fair enough Pete. Setting up the CPU for P3D is fairly vital in my opinion.

[charleslee201 19]

its the traffic that is doing the stutters  ...