Carenado CJ2 Few problems

[raymar 969]

I tested the Direct To in this aircraft and many other Carenado aircraft and I stated the results in the Avsim reviews. Carenado takes exceptions to this so we have two methods. Most of the world considers Direct To mean DIRECT TO and not to select the next leg and fly and intercept course somewhere along that leg. Simple as that.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ray

 

Yes. It doesn't create the direct to leg. Instead it makes the selected leg active, which is not even remotely what a direct to means.

 

Look... I have real-world trainers out there based on Proline 21 emulations... I can assure you, this addon's direct to isn't even close to real-world.

 

Do you even know how a direct to is supposed to work, or are you just wanting to fight with people?

Please cool it. We do not want the moderators to lock this thread. AND it will surely happen, it this continues and goes South on us.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

"What this addon does is simply activate the leg you pick, which means it flies to intercept the line between the DIR TO leg and the one prior to it."

 

How do I do it (DTO) in CJ2?

I use the GTN750 in this CJ2 and when I select Direct To and Activate it flies directly to that point. Simple. In the real world CJ2, it depends of what FMS (there are at least 3 different ones offered by Cessna at the time of manufacture) and they all do something real similar to this. None of them pick a leg from the flight plan and fly some sort of intercept course to that leg.

 

If you were in the real CJ2 and pulled the Carenado stunt, you would most like get a face-to-face conference with Approach Control or Center. The first indication that you would get would be along the lines of "Citation Blah blaf Romero Mike are you experience navigational difficulties. Please return to your assigned course, immediately, FLY DIRECT TO blah intersection" or what ever point in the sky.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[vonmar 122]

Do you even know how a direct to is supposed to work, or are you just wanting to fight with people?

 

No, that is why I asked if you tested it in the Carenado CJ2.

 

I would like to see your screenshot (or video) of the route legs (CDU) and your selection for DTO.

And a screenshot of the bad result (CDU and Map display or whatever shows the error) .. so I will be able to see the same when I test the same thing.

[barrel_owl 304]

"What this addon does is simply activate the leg you pick, which means it flies to intercept the line between the DIR TO leg and the one prior to it."

 

How do I do it (DTO) in CJ2?

 

The procedure is pretty straightforward:

From "FMS-3000 Flight Management System - For the Cessna Citation CJ1+/CJ2+/CJ3":

 

DIRECT TO WAYPOINT (DIR KEY)

 

RATIONALE:

The Direct-To waypoint function, when selected, sends FMS steering commands to the flight control system to fly the aircraft directly to the selected waypoint.

SUMMARY:

The ACT DIRECT-TO page lets the pilot select a waypoint to fly directly to. The ACT DIRECT-TO page can consist of several pages. To find a waypoint that is part of the active flight plan, but not shown on the current page, the NEXT or PREV function key is used as necessary to show the desired waypoint. The annunciation HISTORY shows at the top of the page just below the title line when a DIRECT-TO HISTORY page shows on the CDU.

CHECKLIST:

1 Push the DIR function key to show the ACT DIRECT-TO page.

2 Push the line select key next to the identifier of the waypoint to fly Direct-To.

 

NOTE

Many SIDs and STARs contain conditional waypoints that have no fixed geographical location, such as a heading to an altitude leg or a vector leg. Although these types of waypoints show on the ACT DIRECT-TO page, they cannot be selected for Direct-To navigation.

3 To intercept and fly a specific course to the Direct-To waypoint, enter the course into the scratchpad, then enter it into the INTC CRS line on the MOD LEGS page.

4 Make sure that the flight plan changed on the MFD and CDU, then push the EXEC function key to execute the modified flight plan.

 

[raymar 969]

The procedure is pretty straightforward:

From "FMS-3000 Flight Management System - For the Cessna Citation CJ1+/CJ2+/CJ3":

While this is true, keep in mind that the Carenado coded and installed FMS is not anything near the FMS3000 or Universal UNS-1?, and Carenado has never stated what model, if any, FMS that they are emulating in the add ons. They have always stated, when pressed for comments, that they have a 'simplified FMS' system.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ray

[barrel_owl 304]

While this is true, keep in mind that the Carenado coded and installed FMS is not anything near the FMS3000 or Universal UNS-1?, and Carenado has never stated what model, if any, FMS that they are emulating in the add ons. They have always stated, when pressed for comments, that they have a 'simplified FMS' system.

 

Thank you Ray.

Unfortunately I can't either confirm or dismiss. As you know, I decided to pass on for the moment. I only offered this quote as base for testing, since Vaughan asked how DIR-TO is supposed to work in real life on a real FMS 3000.

 

The fact that Carenado's FMS 3000 is simplified is itself not disturbing, in my view. Honestly, if they offered a complete and fully functional FMS 3000, their product could not cost 39,99 USD. But DIR-TO must work. So, if it does not, they have the opportunity to fix this in their next release. 

[vonmar 122]

I tested the Direct To in this aircraft and many other Carenado aircraft and I stated the results in the Avsim reviews. Carenado takes exceptions to this so we have two methods. Most of the world considers Direct To mean DIRECT TO and not to select the next leg and fly and intercept course somewhere along that leg. Simple as that.

 

 

Thanks for your previous answers.

 

I tried a DTO but, I did not know if I was doing it correctly in the CJ2.

That is why I was asking for a route .. like a flight plan (CDU) with a screenshot so I could test the same.

And, I would be nice to see a screenshot of what a correct DTO looks like ....

And, how to tell if a DTO is "off course" when executed .... like a map view or something??

 

Now I did a screenshot of my test and I think I selected it OK in the CJ2.

BTW, I only seen in the CJ2 manual how to select a DTO airport ....

Did I miss the page in the manual where it talked about (what they modeled) in another DTO selection procedure?

 

I did a route .. once in the air I diverted (DTO) to another waypoint in the plan ... (as was mentioned to do here in the posts).

 

The aircraft did an immediate turn and flew .. best I could tell directly to that waypoint ..

 

I did  a couple screenshots .. will get it and add it here in a few minutes (have to upload it to a host first).

 

 

 

 

 

[scottb613 1,187]

Morn'n Folks,

 

While I really don't have a problem using a "simplified" FMS (used IGS for years) - at a minimum - the basic functionality should be present... The default GPS is capable of a "Direct To" - the FMC should be capable as well... I didn't see any screens to fly "holds" - so I don't think we can do that... As I mentioned in another thread - the FMC really needs to offer some information on "progress" as I couldn't find any info on time/fuel required to reach a destination from present position... The FMC seems like the weakest link in this package...

 

 Regards,
Scott

[KenG 492]

Some of us don't base our opinions on just the manuals or you tube videos but on training provided by Rockwell-Collins and use of the actual hardware. 

 

Carenado version is broke, period. 

 

Time is up for the C90GT, we got left with a broken FMS that Carenado has no intention of fixing. However, the CJ2 community has a chance to flood Carenado's support ticket system and declare that they are dissatisfied with Direct in the CJ2. 

 

However, we all know that Carenado only does about 2 to 3 service packs before abandoning the project... 

[vonmar 122]

Some of us don't base our opinions on just the manuals or you tube videos but on training provided by Rockwell-Collins and use of the actual hardware. 

 

Carenado version is broke, period. 

 

Time is up for the C90GT, we got left with a broken FMS that Carenado has no intention of fixing. However, the CJ2 community has a chance to flood Carenado's support ticket system and declare that they are dissatisfied with Direct in the CJ2. 

 

However, we all know that Carenado only does about 2 to 3 service packs before abandoning the project... 

 

I did not purchase the C90GT so cannot comment.

But I did purchase the CJ2 (nice to have up to date Navigraph data for the FMS procedures).

 

"the CJ2 community has a chance to flood Carenado's support ticket system"

 

Thai is why I have asked if the posters here purchased the CJ2? .. actually tested it ?  and then sent Carenado a ticket for support on this DTO?

 

Edit:

"Some of us don't base our opinions on just the manuals or you tube videos but on training provided by Rockwell-Collins and use of the actual hardware."

 

My guess it .. a full featured FSX and P3D CJ2/Rockwell-Collins Sim  would be a lot more that $40 ??

[raymar 969]

As a section in the Avsim review of the CJ2 I am going to address this issue. It was examined and reported as a problem in the Carenado Citation S550 review and it has not been corrected in the CJ2. I plan to contact Carenado management as ask for a statement for the record on their position of their definition of the Direct To procedure.

 

Thanks for your previous answers.

 

I tried a DTO but, I did not know if I was doing it correctly in the CJ2.

That is why I was asking for a route .. like a flight plan (CDU) with a screenshot so I could test the same.

And, I would be nice to see a screenshot of what a correct DTO looks like ....

And, how to tell if a DTO is "off course" when executed .... like a map view or something??

 

Now I did a screenshot of my test and I think I selected it OK in the CJ2.

BTW, I only seen in the CJ2 manual how to select a DTO airport ....

Did I miss the page in the manual where it talked about (what they modeled) in another DTO selection procedure?

 

I did a route .. once in the air I diverted (DTO) to another waypoint in the plan ... (as was mentioned to do here in the posts).

 

The aircraft did an immediate turn and flew .. best I could tell directly to that waypoint ..

 

I did  a couple screenshots .. will get it and add it here in a few minutes (have to upload it to a host first).

 

Vaughan,

 

This is not what I am experiencing. I used the Carenado provided flight plan example for the Proline 21 from Detroit Metro to Kansas City Downtown and chose to cutoff one of the doglegs while in flight. Rather than fly to the direct to waypoint it chose to intercept the leg leading to my chosen direct to waypoint. I repeated this to make sure, then I flew the same route using the GTN750 and it performed as expected and ignored the abandoned leg and plotted the new course direct to the correct waypoint.

 

Your example looks like the FMS is doing it the correct way, but I have not been able to coax it into performing the correct procedure.

 

Ray

[vonmar 122]

Your example looks like the FMS is doing it the correct way, but I have not been able to coax it into performing the correct procedure.

 

Ray,

 

I have many screenshots ... and all my tests are looking good enough that a controller could not scold for improper DTO .... at least not in our Flight Sim ATC usage.

 

From my previous post .. just for info:

MyCJ2-DIR-To-Post

 

Carenado CJ2 Few problems

Page 7

 

Post # 103

 

For DIR TO I did this .. and I observed no strange intercepts or the like to get there ... just went directly there e.g. ATC instructions:

I added the direct to waypoint (not part of original plan) to the flight plan (after the current legs waypoint) then selected DIR and clicked on the CDU waypoint name in the flight plan.

Went directly to it.

 

I did not lose the flight plan in CDU.

Next test:

 

I did DIR using a waypoint in the current CDU plan.

 

Went directly to it.

 

Did not lose the flight plan.

DIR is working ok for my usage.

 

Note: I did screenshots of the CDU edits and DIR selections as well as screenshots of FSCommander map .. if they are needed here.

 

Carenado made us a very nice ride in this CJ2.

 

[WarpD 824]

Try this flight plan: KPWK to KASG using JORJO3 to ARLYN SPOKE RZC. After takeoff, go direct to JILYN.

 

Here's a video of how it's supposed to work:

 

[KenG 492]

Try this flight plan: KPWK to KASG using JORJO3 to ARLYN SPOKE RZC. After takeoff, go direct to JILYN.

 

Here's a video of how it's supposed to work:

 

 

 

That looks like an XLS cockpit.  

[vonmar 122]

Also, in one of my previous post I asked ... but no reply yet?:

 

Is there more than one way to go DIR TO ?

For example,when using NAV (VOR) source or FSS/CDU to go to a VOR or using FMS/CDU to go DIR to a waypoint?

[WarpD 824]

Well, pushing the NAV course knob on the controller will center the deflection and if the autopilot is tracking the NAV signal it will turn and intercept. But, that's not an ATC-type direct to really.

 

The FMS only goes direct to waypoints (though VORs can be waypoints).

That looks like an XLS cockpit.  

I can neither confirm nor deny. LOL