MD Max Pro

[virtuali 4,419]

>Customers who relied on it were deceived. What does it mean "relied on it" ? It's a *game* ( or better said, it's an hobby ), were you planning to do professional work or training with a 34 Euro product and the late arrival of the FMC impacted in some way your work ? The airplane is perfectly flyable without the FMC, and it has been used like this in the real world for years.No one payed anything for the FMC, they could have released already, cashing the money, and then patching later. If it's not released it, the ONLY one losing money it's the developer, certainly not the user.Want some examples from the real world ? Steve Jobs promised during the Summer 2003 a 3.0 Ghz Power Mac G5 to be arriving before 1 year starting from that date. It's more than 12 months overdue, and still we don't have it. It's a 3000$ computer mostly used for work, many can probably say ( rightfully ) they relied on it.Toshiba promised HD-DVD before the end of this year. Now, they have just announced an at least 6 months delay, so the first consumer player will arrive only in 2006.Sony initially announced the Playstation Portable to be launched in Europe during March-April 2005. But they change plans and delayed up to September.Microsoft promised the Moon with Longhorn, now what it's left of it in Windows Vista looks a bit underwhelming, otherwise they wouldn't ever be able to released it in time, with all the initially promised features.Sometimes it seems FS users really live in another dimension, were everything is released on time, plans do not change, product are always delivered bug free!!

[virtuali 4,419]

>Looks like an interesting product, but I skipped it due to>their customer unfriendly activation procedure.>2.You have only one activation "shot", means if you>change your hardware, you have to wait again for>re-activation.>3.You get one license for one computer, no chance to install>it on a second Laptop computer, not even for the high price of>the product. This is the same for the 747 PMDG, expect it costs more than MdMax. Faced it guys, FS market it's *small*. Sooner or later, ALL FS developers will use activation. The only difference will be in the time it will take for anyone to decide.It's not the videogame market, when if you sell 1 million copies or 2 millions, you still can make a lot of money. Here, selling 2000 copies or 1000 copies, can make the difference between surviving or stopping developement altogether.

[Guest mikealpha]

>> Here, selling 2000 copies or 1000 copies, can make the difference between surviving or stopping developement altogether.Even more I don't understand why honestly paying customers are bothered with such strict activation stuff. Will that increase sales numbers in the long run ? I doubt it.Other companies do the same? OK, I'll skip them as well. Cloud 9 is such an example. I was very close to buy their Amsterdam scenery. But also their box version needs activation (without mentioning it on the box !).Once activated, the automatic activation system is blocked for some weeks and then I am dependent from them. Hope for good mood of Cloud 9 to renew my activation ? No, thanks.After all, it's a hobby, so I say again : "If they don't trust me, why should I" ? I continue to support e.g. Flight1. Their system is a perfect compromise for me between customer friendliness and a certain amount of protection. Absolutely acceptable.There are plenty of great products out there to enhance the fun in FS, so I can very well live without MDMAX or Cloud9 AmsterdamMike

[Egbert Drenth 250]

>>Customers who relied on it were deceived. >>What does it mean "relied on it" ? It's a *game* ( or better>said, it's an hobby ), were you planning to do professional>work or training with a 34 Euro product and the late arrival>of the FMC impacted in some way your work ? >That was not my point. My point is all about managing the expectations of the customers and the severe lack of communication.I bought the MD80 in january for 2 reasons:1. Based on my experience on the FS98 Maddog panel2. Because the FMC would arrive a month later.I for one wanted to have an FMC in such an aircraft. If I had known in january that the FMC still wouldn't have been released 8 months later I certainly would not have bought it.If the FMC would have been released in March or April, I would not have any problems with that. Sometimes things take longer then expected. But there is a huge difference between 2 months or more than 8 months delay, and even more when everyone is kept in the dark.>The airplane is perfectly flyable without the FMC, and it has>been used like this in the real world for years.>Yes, the aircraft can fly without an FMC. It also flies without an autopilot, or without flaps if necessay, but that is irrelevant in this discussion for me.

[virtuali 4,419]

>I am dependent from them>After all, it's a hobbyHere you are counterdicting yourself, if it *is* an hobby, waiting a few hours for an e-mail, and ONLY when you change your hardware, shouldn't be a problem.And, you probably don't exchange hardware for free, money is always lost by upgrading. And TIME. The time it takes to reinstall new components can be significant sometimes, even if you are doing it as an hobby. I don't think a new motherboard or a new video card just comes from your door unexpectedly. If you are planning an hardware upgrade and you *know* you have a software that will require reactivation, why don't you simply use ( for example ), the time needed to go to the shop, return to home and installing the new component, to write the email for the reactivation ? You'll probably get a reply before having the new system up and running.I mean : you state it's an hobby, but then you require a level of avalaibility comparable like if you were maintaing a mission critical server, like your business depended on that software being available 24/7. If full availability is *that* important to you, you can always buy 2 licences ( 2nd it's available for a reduce price ) and use the spare one when waiting for rectivation. Cost more ? Sure it does, EXACTLY as if you want more reliability from your hard-drive, you can invest in a RAID system and some backup, because the regular repair warranty that comes with your normal hard drive it's not enough to cover your needs.Doesn't make much sense to buy a RAID for an hobby ? Exactly. >I continue to support e.g. Flight1. Their system is a perfect>compromise for me between customer friendliness and a certain>amount of protection. Absolutely acceptable.Keyword here is a "certain amount of protection". Putting a protection that is the same as if it wasn't there, it IS a joke, because it surely annoys somewhat the paying customer, and it doesn't stop the determined hacker, proof is, you can find cracked Flight1 product very easily, opposite to Cloud9's or MdMax.You know on the LAGO forum ( the Maddog is protected, but very mildly ) many complained about LAGO not having used a *stronger* protection, because they felt ripped off having to pay for the product, when many got it for free a couple of days after release, because the protection was too weak ?

[virtuali 4,419]

>That was not my point. My point is all about managing the>expectations of the customers and the severe lack of>communication.I already said I agree here. Communication has been the lacking point of MdMax.>1. Based on my experience on the FS98 Maddog panelThat has been certainly fullfilled. FS98 Maddog was the best MD80 panel available back then, MdMax is still the best MD80 panel available today.>If I had known in january that the FMC still wouldn't have>been released 8 months later I certainly would not have bought>it.Not even the developer anticipated such a delay. That's why all the more active users on the pilot's roster has been given the chance to try it for free and test it, as sort of a compensation. It was maybe assumed that, if one doesn't fly with the panel, maybe it's not *that* interested having the FMC either. >Yes, the aircraft can fly without an FMC. It also flies>without an autopilot, or without flaps if necessay, but that>is irrelevant in this discussion for me.Wrong example. The airplane do not just "flies" without FMC, as it can withouth flaps or A/P. It has been OPERATED, realistically, by airlines without FMC for many years and still is in a lot of situations, even on models equipped with it. Without FMC you are still simulating real world day to day standard operations, without flaps or a/p, it's not very real anymore.

[mgh 89]

>What does it mean "relied on it" ? It's a *game* ( or better>said, it's an hobby ), were you planning to do professional>work or training with a 34 Euro product and the late arrival>of the FMC impacted in some way your work ? You should have read my post carefully. I clearly referred to those who relied on the STATEMENT that the FMC would be ready shortly to purchase the original product and are still waiting to be able to buy it. MDMax marketing strategy was interesting. "You can buy this now and you can buy an add-on in a month" then fail to deliver the add-on for at least 8 months. MDMax's website says:"MDMax is offered in a modular form in order to allow users to purchase only the components that interest them. The cockpit represents the essential component. The FMS module is offered separately following a precise training method:..." This is not true because the FMS module is not offered separately - it's not offered at all.It also says:"...it is advised to purchase the FMS module only after having completely understood the functions of the cockpit and the traditional techniques on how to fly the MD80"Perhaps the FMC's been delayed by 8 months to give cockpit purchasers' time to have "completely understood the functions of the cockpit"? How thoughtful of MDMax.

[virtuali 4,419]

>You should have read my post carefully. I clearly referred to>those who relied on the STATEMENT that the FMC would be ready>shortly to purchase the original product and are still waiting>to be able to buy it. I perfectly understood you were referring to the statement! So what ? ANY missed release date in the industry it's called "missed" referring to some kind of previous statement that hasn't been fullfilled, otherwise how you would call it missed, in the first place ?>MDMax's website says:>This is not true because the FMS module is not offered>separately - it's not offered at all.Of course is not offered, clearly enough, because there's also written To Be Announced. This is usually happens *everytime* when the release date has been shifted, sometimes they put a new date, some times they put a TBA, but websites do change, statements are not fullfilled, it happens everytime, where's the news ?Heck, maybe I've just bought my Nintendo Gamecube yesterday just to play new Zelda, because Nintendo said it would be out in November. Unfortunately, they change plans, it will be out ( maybe ) April next year. But I've bought the Gamecube just to play that game, am I screwed ? Should I sue Nintendo for emotional distress, maybe ?>Perhaps the FMC's been delayed by 8 months to give cockpit>purchasers' time to have "completely understood the functions>of the cockpit"? How thoughtful of MDMax.Believe it or not, it might well be. I personally know the developer, and he really thinks the FMC spoils all the fun of flying, and the MD80 FMC, in particular, since is NOT standard equipment for that plane, has a quirky and less elegant integration with the A/P, compared to more modern airplanes, that need a pilot to be REALLY proficent with the standard autopilot first, and adding the FMC after some training. That's why people with high rankings in the roster already have it.

[mgh 89]

>>Perhaps the FMC's been delayed by 8 months to give cockpit>>purchasers' time to have "completely understood the>functions>>of the cockpit"? How thoughtful of MDMax.>>Believe it or not, it might well be. I personally know the>developer, and he really thinks the FMC spoils all the fun of>flying, and the MD80 FMC, in particular, since is NOT standard>equipment for that plane, has a quirky and less elegant>integration with the A/P, compared to more modern airplanes,>that need a pilot to be REALLY proficent with the standard>autopilot first, and adding the FMC after some training.>That's why people with high rankings in the roster already>have it.>That's another novel marketing technique - a developer says he'll provide an add-on and then decides against it because "really thinks it spoils all the fun".Who are these "people with high rankings" who have the FMC that isn't available to low ranking people?Despite your valiant efforts to act as MDMax's marketing agent, I guess most people will have got the real message by now about this product.

[Guest Tatu]

The thing that the developer makes the decisions for the customer is really annoying. "You don't need the FMC before you can perfectly handle the other functions of the plane." Exactly because FS2004 is a game then I want to decide myself what I want. If I want a FMC for a MD then so be it. I don't need anyone else to approve this. I can accept a delay when publishing something new, FMC in this case, BUT.... if the delay is going to be quite long then I would like to get some reasons for that. The problem with MDMAX is that they advertised that the FMC will be available in February... they just forgot to tell which year in the future. The plane models the systems very well, but the graphics are really nothing to compare to LDS or PMDG. It is for example difficult to follow Flight Director that jumps here and there all the time and does not move smoothly. And what about the realism... when the weather gets very cold you can surely expect MDMAX to freeze. Where I come from, the weather gets often below -30 degrees celsius during the wintertime and real MD80's have been flying there for years without problems. By the time I have taxied the MDMAX MD to the runway simulating a winter flight it has frozen because some of the Anti-ice systems are not working on the ground. (which actually is correct)There should be the on the ground anti-ice service which isn't available in the sim or MDMAX product. Come on... And loading up the plane.... the Cargo and passengers take a long time to get in the plane and the accelerated boarding gives problems somewhere else in the systems so it isn't usable. When I do have time I don't really want to sit here and look at some numbers increasing for 10 minutes before I can start the engines etc. Nothing wrong with the system but it really should be possible to skip it.Since FS2004 is just a game you have to keep in mind the limitations of the sim or design the product your own way around these problems. Tatu

[pbenoit 0]

I sometimes hesitate to write ... but my $.02 ...I have both the LAGO Maddog and MdMax ... (and the FS2000 Maddog was my first commercial addon way long ago it seems).For my $$$ I believe the Lago offering, despite their TERRIBLE NON-SUPPORT and seeming end of it's life cycle, is pretty solid if you want a MD-80 in your fleet. I use it often for Delta, AA and Alitalia flights. If you understand the MD-80 and the fact that it's NOT a Boeing or Airbus, and specifically if you understand how to use the AP correctly, the Lago Maddog is a pretty good piece of software. Many people hate it, not sure really why ... not being a pilot in real life ... I can't speak to the flight dynamics, but having read the DC-9-80 AOM over and over, Lago did the systems pretty well ... certainly works for me.MDMax is also a very well done piece of software although the developer seems to have a very strange attitude at times. Initially I thought it was the PS1.3 of MD-80's and I still take a circuit around Milano on occasion ... but as much as all the details are there ... there are NO other liveries .... the only real issue I have in flightsim is liking to fly the real livery ... if I'm flying a Alitalia route ... I want an Alitalia livery ... I have done LIMC-LIRF and LIMC-EDDF etc enough times in the MDMax ... and I don't miss the FMS ... The FMS in the LAGO software works pretty well ... again is you know how to use it ... So ... If you want a good MD-80 with a FMS ... try the MADDOG from Lago ... if you want to wait for MdMax ... I'm sure you won;t be disappointed ...I for one am pleased to have a choice of MD-80'sCheers,