First Flight Observations from the CJ...

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Folks,

 

First flight - (KBGR) Bangor ME to (KSHD) the Shenandoah Valley VA - two beautiful airports (especially KSHD) which I've flown into for real... Now - I must have (I'm guessing) some type of VAS issue unrelated to Carenado as this has happened with other aircraft... Right around the two hour point of a flight - P3D just locks up crashes... How frustrating after taking two hours out to conduct a flight... The frame rates seem to suffer a bit before the crash - so I should have known it was coming... Running WIN10 - P3Dv3.1 - ASN - RC4 - UTX2 - FTX Global - FTX Freeware Airports - REX - UT2 - and - Fltplan GO... I'm still pretty new to this FSX/P3D thing only recently moving from FS9... I was 15 minutes from completing this flight - LOL - I could have spit... Back to the drawing board...

 

I was flying at FL360 and the high end throttle response does seem a bit strange... The charts stated I should be making around 405 Knots TAS at this altitude in high speed cruise but the only way I could come close to this speed was to max the throttles at 102.4% N1 - which far exceeds max continuous... If I back off the throttle even a little bit - still above 100% N1 - it's like throwing out a boat anchor and I'll lose 50 to 60 knots TAS... If I backed off to max continuous settings - I'd be flying prop speeds... I could be doing something wrong...

 

I was watching the (3) FMC Performance pages fairly closely throughout the flight and for some reason on page 3 - the fuel usage (bottom right) was always on zero... In addition - it seemed all the performance calculations were based on the initial point of departure... There are absolutely no indicators to tell you - progress - like how much time and fuel you need to get to your destination - from a point along the flight...

 

It is a beautiful plane and it does seem to fly nicely - it's really my first taste of flying a biz jet in FS and as mentioned - I could be doing something totally wrong - as I'm much more familiar with normally aspirated props...

 

Regards,

Scott

[raymar 969]

Scott,

 

the max continuous operating limit on the Williams-Rolls are 102.8 N1% FAN RPM. I think that is what is expected for Max Cruise Thrust. N2 Max continuous is 100 %. These are the same as Takeoff except for the ITT temps. Takeoff is 877 max and Max Cont. is 840 deg C. Remember these are spinning fans made for high altitude and not internal combustion engines with propellers. Go for it.

 

Ray

[mmc71 2]

I was flying at FL360 and the high end throttle response does seem a bit strange... The charts stated I should be making around 405 Knots TAS at this altitude in high speed cruise but the only way I could come close to this speed was to max the throttles at 102.4% N1 - which far exceeds max continuous... If I back off the throttle even a little bit - still above 100% N1 - it's like throwing out a boat anchor and I'll lose 50 to 60 knots TAS... If I backed off to max continuous settings - I'd be flying prop speeds... I could be doing something wrong...

 

 

That is what I see also though I'm still using FSX. I usually cruise at more than 102%  N1. Fuel consumption exceeds more than 1000 lb/h when flying with this performance setup. This means, 2.5 hours and its over. Right or worong ? Nevertheless it's a short flight.

 

Michael

[raymar 969]

That is what I see also though I'm still using FSX. I usually cruise at more than 102%  N1. Fuel consumption exceeds more than 1000 lb/h when flying with this performance setup. This means, 2.5 hours and its over. Right or worong ? Nevertheless it's a short flight.

 

Michael

Until we get it tweaked correctly we can add fuel in a heartbeat and keep flying. :wink:  I fly WOT also.

 

Ray

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Folks,,

 

Thanks for the responses... Ahh - I see there are two tables for max continuous one with Ice Protection on and one with it off and - with it off - it is 102.4 % like you already knew... So - that leads me to another question - should Ice Protection be on or off in normal flight... I know with it off I get an indicator on the warning panel...

 

Regards,

Scott

[mmc71 2]

I doubt it is correct to fly with ice protection as long as it isn't necessary. But the warning/info light with ice protection off isn't correct either I think.

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi...

 

Thanks...

 

I just looked at fuel consumption and I don't think it's that far off - at 36K and full power - the charts show about1000 lbs/hr - which is about what I saw...

 

Regards,

Scott

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Folks,

 

Just a heads up as well...

 

If you build/have an account on FltPlan.com - they have a (flight planning/fuel burn) profile built for the CJ2 525A - which might help when planning trips... If this plane holds my interest - I might convert that to an FSBuild profile as well...

 

http://www.fltplan.com

 

Regards,

Scott

[raymar 969]

Check your PM.

 

Ray

[haskell 298]

I used fltplan.com last night and the results for their CJ2 profile are pretty darn close.

 

I also fly wide open. Even at 99% you do lose 50-60 kts. Also, I hate that a tiny throttle change from full (102-101%) is like slamming on the brakes! Reminds me of the lunge when some prop planes (Carenado) change prop pitch. Very jerky. I'm guessing a coding issue as I can't imagine a real Citation being that touchy.

 

Back to Fltplan... The times are dead on! 3 flights and all were within 2 minutes of the Fltplan times. Fuel burn seems to be lower than projected... even at full throttle... With the Carenado bird burning about 80-85% of plan. Which is OK. I'd rather have that little extra cushion.

 

I must say with the mods for the GTN and TA warning this plane is really nice! Very fun to fly!

 

Thanks to all for your contributions!

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Eddie,

 

Glad FltPlan works out...

 

Yeah - while I'm new to biz jets - I spent a great deal of time in the FT ERJ and CoolSky MD80 in FS9 - - - I would think the high end throttle performance should be more linear... You should be able to back off for better fuel burn and longer range - without slamming on the brakes...

 

Regards,
Scott 

[VFR_Steve 0]

Some shots showing the CJ2 with 60 degree flaps compared to 35 degrees, which is manipulated using the normal flap operation:

 

 

 

 

 

I've bought this little beauty today, very nice aircraft and really good performance.

ooh I forgot to mention, anyone noticed the standby attitude indicator isn't working properly?

 

I cant wait to explore some tight airstrips with this aircraft, perfect combo of business jet/hands on seat of your pants style flying which I love about these old Citations.

[raymar 969]

Hi Folks,,

 

Thanks for the responses... Ahh - I see there are two tables for max continuous one with Ice Protection on and one with it off and - with it off - it is 102.4 % like you already knew... So - that leads me to another question - should Ice Protection be on or off in normal flight... I know with it off I get an indicator on the warning panel...

 

Regards,

Scott

That depends on whether you have icing weather. Performance is always impacted when de-ice in ON.

 

Ray

Some shots showing the CJ2 with 60 degree flaps compared to 35 degrees, which is manipulated using the normal flap operation:

anyone noticed the standby attitude indicator isn't working properly?

 

I cant wait to explore some tight airstrips with this aircraft, perfect combo of business jet/hands on seat of your pants style flying which I love about these old Citations.

Yes, that is reported, also the ALT gauge next to it FUBSU and that is reported. Be sure to send your reports to Support if something doesn't work correctly or you can't figure it out.

 

Ray

[Dutch1 24]

Hey Scott, i can't seem to locate the (flight planning/fuel burn) profile built for the CJ2 525A at FltPlan.com, Can you give me a little direction?

 

Thanks, Bob

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Ray,

 

Thanks...

 

Hi Bob,

 

You have to go to "SETTINGS/EDIT AIRCRAFT LIST" on the web site... Then it should give you a place to edit up to 10 aircraft profiles - you need to fill in the fields for an aircraft even if the data is made up - there should be a drop down list under "A/C Performance" with all the defined profiles available on the site... It's called C525A CJ2...

 

Once created - you can go back to the main page "SETTINGS/AC Performance" then select your desired aircraft - then you can see all the defined performance data and even change it if you don't like it...

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards,
Scott