Discussion Thread for the "Ask Dovetail Games..." Thread!

[dtrjones 356]

One thing I noticed with the video - cockpit canopy has no reflective qualities or scratches. It's like you're flying in an open cockpit...

[SamYeager 244]

One thing that I think that is worth highlighting is this answer from Martin to a question about a publically available SDK.
 

That is the long term plan. We recognise the passion that exists in the flight simulation community around enabling players to create user generated content.

 

To me this reads as though the SDK won't be available for at least a couple of years. This does allow DTG to work with professional payware companies to refine and tweak the SDK. It also hopefully means that the initial add-ons/DLC should be of decent quality. Obviously the downside is that we will have no alternative to payware in the first few years.

 

Obviously some people will be outraged at this but I'll wait and see what happens first before getting on my high horse.

[arsenal82 115]

One thing that I think that is worth highlighting is this answer from Martin to a question about a publically available SDK.

 

 

To me this reads as though the SDK won't be available for at least a couple of years. This does allow DTG to work with professional payware companies to refine and tweak the SDK. It also hopefully means that the initial add-ons/DLC should be of decent quality. Obviously the downside is that we will have no alternative to payware in the first few years.

 

Obviously some people will be outraged at this but I'll wait and see what happens first before getting on my high horse.

 

 

i bet on my words:  Dtg will have hard times to make swallow a simulator that is without a sdk - if that will be the case !

[Glynn 405]

I would love somebody to define  "Professional developer"  for me and let me know what the professional qualifications are or how DTG will determine who is a Professional and who is a hobbyist just getting a start but may go on to be the next LevelD or PMDG.

 

Or maybe like Lockheed martin who will sell me a Developers licence for $10 a month no questions asked, they may not care and open it up to everyone.

[HiFlyer 8,876]

Yea, thou shalt not mention the unmentionable EULA thing, lest thine post be struck down by the righteous wrath of Mod! 

[Wobbie 934]

Erm.. and what relevance is that question?

DTG (Martin) has said that the Training game is for newbies, & the sim will be for the more sophisticated gamer.

 From Wiki..

A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns their living from a specified professional activity. The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform their specific role within that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct, enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations.^[1] Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognized professional associations, such as the IEEE.^[2] Some definitions of "professional" limit this term to those professions that serve some important aspect of public interest ^[3] and the general good of society.^[4][5]

 

 

Hobbyists are a part of a wider group of people engaged in leisure pursuits where the boundaries of each group overlap to some extent. The Serious Leisure Perspective^[1] groups hobbyists with amateurs and volunteers and identifies three broad groups of leisure activity with hobbies being found mainly in the Serious leisure category.

a. Casual leisure is intrinsically rewarding, short-lived, pleasurable activity requiring little or no preparation

b. Serious leisure is the systematic pursuit of an amateur, hobbyist, or volunteer that is substantial, rewarding and results in a sense of accomplishment.

c. Project-based leisure is a short-term often a one-off project that is rewarding.^[2]

[SamYeager 244]

My use of "professional" was aimed at those companies whose primary, or only, source of income is from the sale of their products. Perhaps "commercial" would have been a better choice of word?

 

It occurs to me that another reason for the delay in providing a public SDK may be because DTG already have plans to further develop DTFS and some of those changes may cause breaking changes.. Limiting those affected to a small group may be perceived as a better route to follow. Please note that all this is merely speculation of my part. I have no personal insight to DTG's thinking.

[mibmab 6]

 

 

Obviously some people will be outraged at this but I'll wait and see what happens first before getting on my high horse.

To be outraged would IMHO require that someone, in this case DTG, broke promises, or even worse a contract. And I don't see that. This will be new product and you'll either like it or you stay happily with FSX(SE) or one of the other alternatives. I guess if DTG see a medium/long-term economic potential in providing an SDK, e.g. widening the user base of the new sim or providing a pathway towards commercial development for the platform (from which they would have to benefit with a small share), they might consider it.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

Some of you may be interested in this great new post by Martin on the future of DTG Flight Simulator here: 

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/483642-ask-dovetail-games-about-dtg-flight-school-flight-simulator/?p=3412298

[sightseer 895]

The people at Outerra must be both thoughtful and observant.  I have yet to see a bad screenshot from their work.

That first one (with the yellow sunset) shows what I was trying to do with my work.  As the sun gets closer to the horizon it tends to light up that entire area and then, as it lowers, the colors start to come in as the sun shines through lower layers of the atmosphere (distant dust and haze and water vapor).

 

In my opinion its entirely possible for flightsim to do a much better job with sunsets (and sunrises).  From what I have observed, sunsets are very weather dependent.  A very clear sky will have little color if any.  If you've ever watched a sunset in the winter out in the country - there is very little color sometimes.  A sky has to have something in it for it to be colorful and whats in it and how its arranged is what makes the sunset.  Dust and water vapor will cause colors in the sky but its the clouds that cause the most color and the most pattern.  As the sun sets, it passes through more and more stuff and that shifts colors towards the red and if you look behind you you often see the shadow of the Earth creeping up and shadowing the clouds.  From above the clouds at sunset you can watch the shadow line move.  very cool.

 

I feel that what flightsim is missing most is a more complex haze/atmosphere.  I was really surprised when LM seemd to go backwards with sunset depiction.  They said they were all about light and shadow and then they took the light away at sunset.  I think the atmosphere should be more like a giant cloud. It should reflect light when you are above the area of reduced visibility (depending on how much dust there is - from what I observe the water vapor haze will reflect and self shadow while more dust and smoke produces that reddish tint.) and it should self shadow -- the increased accumulation of water vapor (like a cloud) will start to both reflect more light and block light from hitting lower portions (of either cloud or atmosphere).  this is produces that blue haze (IMO).

 

Clouds themselves are complicated.  foglike clouds on a clear day are yellowish away from the sun and brightly lit towards the sun but as they grow they start that reflecting and self shadowing routine and they start being brighter away from the sun and towards the sun they have that silver lining and a nice shadow. (from what I observe)

 

maybe it is too complicated but I think that making the haze much less uniform in appareance would be a good first step.  its like with P3Dv3 -  put in 40 mile visibility and the sun gets quite dim.  I think its too much.  The real sun shines brightly through that haze and produces nice warm colors.

 

and Ive said enough for now...thanks for reading if you read it all.  remember - just my opinions and thoughts here - not trying to tell anyone 'how it is'

 

and I like what I see in that landing approach video. Ive accepted that its an FSX clone and that's actually good news perhaps. If LM can do what they did than DTG can do the same and better Im sure. I do hope they listen to voices other than their payware partners. it looks like they are because that sky in that video seems more realistic to me than pervious shots (excluding the original video of course - why cant we just have that? - looks fine)

[n4gix 4,862]

One thing that I think that is worth highlighting is this answer from Martin to a question about a publically available SDK.

  

To me this reads as though the SDK won't be available for at least a couple of years.

How you got from A to Z baffles me. Martin couldn't be more clear with these statements:

Flight simulation would be nothing without all the hard work of third party developers, be them big companies or bedroom coders.

 

<snipped for brevity>

 

We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

How you got from A to Z baffles me. Martin couldn't be more clear with these statements:

 

Great clarification Bill. He also followed up with this more explicit answer for those who like to "fill in the blanks"

 

 

It is not about creating two different types of developers, maybe I didn't explain it very well.

 

There are people who are obviously creating content as a living or run companies around add-on production, Orbox A2A and so forth. Then there are people who are creating liveries or making things as an expansion of their flight sim experience. Most of which gets released as freeware or community content. 

 

- Martin

 

[RichLP 32]

Quote

That is the long term plan. We recognise the passion that exists in the flight simulation community around enabling players to create user generated content.

 

To me this reads as though the SDK won't be available for at least a couple of years.

 

Where, may I ask, do you get "at least a couple of years" from that?

[SamYeager 244]

@n4gix

 

That is the long term plan.

Normally when you see this that tends to imply that something is not going to happen in the near future. I took the view that this, a publicly available SDK, would probably not be DTG's priority and made a guess as to how long it would take to appear. An SDK for commercial companies is another matter. Martin's later clarifications, in particular with reference to smaller developers, came after I'd made my comments. It appears I may have misunderstood his comments but TBH Martin's comments are not always that clear cut.

[JSilva 42]

New screenshots available.

https://www.facebook.com/dtgflightschool/posts/624688181041365