Tesla Model III

[michal 44]

 

 

The Tesla 3 was revealed on March 31st.

Yes, I know, the info is still vague.

[KevinAu 441]

Rent a gas/electric hybrid vehicle if no EV with that range exists at the point in time you have this emergency ... but I suspect you may then suggest, well what if I want to drive a 1000 miles away - at which point I'd recommend you fly if your desire is it to arrive as quickly as possible.

 

Since you are setting up these extreme case scenarios, I'll introduce my own much closer to reality scenario ... what if someone does build an EV that can go 555 mi on a single charge?  They actually do exists, but considered prototype and will be a few years away before we see them in mass production.

 

But you keep changing your situations/scenario to what seems to be a based on fear?

 

Economically speaking and the deal breaker for many "our way of life" there is no need to fear this change, it is happening just like the internet started off slow and spread to all locations (even the North pole).  One's "way of life" is not going to change much at all ... just as the next best energy efficient CPU didn't make life worse (in fact it made it better, P3D never looked so good).

 

The real questions we should be asking is why are large energy companies like PG&E attempting to add a monthly sur-charges on homes with Solar?  The real "danger" here is not EVs, it's companies like PG&E that our worried their revenue stream is slowly but surely being cut-off.  At one point in time in CA, all new homes were going to be required to include solar ... a cost that would be barely register as a blip ($10,000 on top of a $700,000 home) on home costs ... guess who lobbied against that ... yes, PG&E lawyers and other energy companies ... and they were successful in killing the regulations.

 

Personally I think you are playing into the hands of companies like PG&E and you're not asking the real question ... why does your remote location require a gasoline generator?  Why do you want to be "off the grid"? 

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Ok, I'll be blunt. My two main concerns as I consider one of these is how much the fuel costs savings are and whether it is flexible enough for my needs. I am not trying to be 'extreme' or move goal posts around to put your ev down. I am trying to determine whether this vehicle can stand on its own economically and utility wise outside of any social or political statement I want to make. The other poster helped me answer the first part of that question by pointing me to the tesla page with the cost calculator. And the answer I've determined is that it is about a 25% savings. And that is great. I'm not trying to be silly with you by throwing out these scenarios because in order to make a comparison, you have to isolate the variables so that you are only comparing one factor at a time. It only muddles the comparison when you start saying that you should buy solar panels, rent hybrids, etc. You can do all that with or without an ev as they provide their own costs and savings. So who cares if one is off the grid on a generator as our scenario? That 25% savings would show up there as well irrespective of how I truck in the fuel or how lousy the generator is as long as the only difference is whether I drive the ev or a gas vehicle. If you don't create scenarios that help you isolate one factor or another that you are interested in to calculate comparisons, then you will never truly know what you are doing. You are only basing your decisions on emotion. Stuff we should have all learned in 7th grade math.

 

I do not believe my concerns regarding the use the vehicle in an unplanned manner is extreme. If you don't like bringing your mother into it or the number 555, then make up your own. 555 only came from the number used earlier to comparr with a 37mpg, 15 gallon car used earlier. The point is there will be times in life when you have to get into your car and go somewhere that you hadn't planned on the night before. And it may very well be at a time of day when Enterprise rent a car is not open. My question still stands as what do you do in that case? With a gas vehicle, you can take it down to your gas station, and be on your way in a less than a ten minute stop. It takes much more time with the ev. You haven't made the case for an ev with regard to flexibility by responding to that legitimate concern by saying I'm a dupe and should change my way of life. Wouldn't a better answer be that they have a charger that provides a full charge in ten minutes? I wouldn't hesitate to buy an ev if it can be fully charged in 10 minutes for a 300 mile range and the break even cost to buy arrives within the lifetime of my use of that vehicle. Until then, I think that technology is just not there to stand on its own as a viable economic and utility alternative to gas vehicles. Government and manufacturer subsidies are the only way to make it viable to the purchaser, but you burden others in society because the extra costs is being transfered to someone else. And for the purchaser, you never know how long those subsidies will last for you anyways. What do you do when they expire?

[TurboTomato 90]

Well you assume that by that time the technology will have improved and the cost dropped to the point where a subsidy isn't needed.

 

And, at least in the UK, your average Tesla buyer is not short of a £ or two, so they would just go back to the kind of car that they were driving previously if the lack of subsidy suddenly makes them vastly more expensive. UK Tesla buyers don't buy them because of a *need* to save money on running costs, that's for sure.

[Guest]

There are many EV cars to choose from based on your "needs" just like we have gasoline cars to choice from based on your "needs" (or means).  Like I pointed out a new Leaf with all the create comforts is essentially a "real" $19,500 car ... I'm not aware of any new gasoline car you can buy today that can meet the price points with the same level of comforts and interior space.  The new Tesla III is supposed to be in the range of $30,000 - $40,000 ... plenty of other EV cars that aren't for those with higher levels of disposable income.

 

 

 

Government and manufacturer subsidies are the only way to make it viable to the purchaser, but you burden others in society because the extra costs is being transfered to someone else. And for the purchaser, you never know how long those subsidies will last for you anyways. What do you do when they expire?

 

Gasoline in the US has been subsidized for many decades (and in many different ways) ... and you know who pays that "burden"  But even without any government "savings" the cost of a new Leaf fully loaded is still only $35,000 which is very much in line with other gasoline cars with similar feature sets.

 

You're repeating much of the same "what it" ... sure you and I can dance that dance all day long ... in your "what if" scenarios I guess you assume you keep your gasoline car with a full tank of gas and constantly topped even though it's a remote location for that "just in case" situation you've created?  Early gasoline cars couldn't do more than about 50mi, very early ones 15mi or less ... over the years/decades they got better.  As more and more EVs are coming out they're improving also, but have a huge advantage of being much more energy efficient out of box.

 

But the key number is that EVs are 47-64% efficient with their energy use, gasoline vehicles are 20-30% ... no matter how you slice that number, nor what scenario you create, your energy use will be HALF that of gasoline ... that cost is real and it will, and currently is, a very economical prospect with or without any "burden" (tax credits) we save well over $300/mo not using gasoline (factoring in our electrical usage).  If it didn't make economical sense, EV purchases would not be growing at the rate they are growing.  

 

When we purchased the Leaf we needed a new car, we could have purchased many cars in the $30,000-$35,000 range ... but any gasoline car would have the additional "burden" of feeding it anywhere from $300-$500/month in gasoline, the EV didn't ... can't be more simple a costs saving that than and a more realistic "usage" for commuters that travel 100-120mi daily.

 

I must admit, this is the first time I've ever heard of the "tax credit" being associated with "burden" ... considering the amount of tax we've paid over my decades of contribution to governments around the globe (which adds up to about 54% of our income including sales taxes) I honestly don't have a problem with being a "burden"

 

Cheers, Rob.