Z170 motherboard quality

[captain_adf 16]

Nice build, skully! I haven't decided yet but I still have 2 months before funds will become available so I'm still early in the planning stages. I'm still heavily leaning Asus despite the alarming reviews. In fact I see the same situation with all recent motherboards and I think it's mainly a consequence of the fact that people with a bad experience are more likely to write a review compared to people whose systems are working fine. It's also useless to see positive reviews from people who have only had their parts for a week! I'd prefer a random sample of owners after 6 months to get a better read on the long term quality, but such a sample is probably impossible to find.

 

I wonder if Asus publishes sales figures and RMA rates? Now that would be useful, but I doubt they would share those numbers.

 

So it's probably going to be Impact VIII, since my current system is an Impact VI and I like it a lot. Might look into Hero or Gene but I don't have the real estate for a massive tower case.

[martin-w 3,234]

I wonder if Asus publishes sales figures and RMA rates? 

 

 

 

I seriously doubt it. I often think that with AIO water coolers, in that we have no idea how many spring a leak because they don't publish the failure rates. 

[vortex681 806]

I seriously doubt it. I often think that with AIO water coolers, in that we have no idea how many spring a leak because they don't publish the failure rates.

 

Equally, it's worth mentioning that the vast majority of AIO coolers perform perfectly and, hence, the failure rate may not justify publication. AIO coolers generally have a good record for reliability and, as with all things, it tends to be only the relatively few complaints you read about as those pleased with the product tend not to go into print about it. The failures tend to be more environmental than mechanical; being stored in seriously sub–zero temperatures during delivery was one well-documented problem. It's not unknown for fans to fail on air coolers (they're by no means perfect) and manufacturers are just as unlikely to publish failure rates for them. Do the research and make a choice - there are always better and worse versions of both types of coolers.

[martin-w 3,234]

Equally, it's worth mentioning that the vast majority of AIO coolers perform perfectly and, hence, the failure rate may not justify publication. AIO coolers generally have a good record for reliability and, as with all things, it tends to be only the relatively few complaints you read about as those pleased with the product tend not to go into print about it. The failures tend to be more environmental than mechanical; being stored in seriously sub–zero temperatures during delivery was one well-documented problem. It's not unknown for fans to fail on air coolers (they're by no means perfect) and manufacturers are just as unlikely to publish failure rates for them. Do the research and make a choice - there are always better and worse versions of both types of coolers.

 

 

Oh yes, leaks are indeed probably rare. My only point is that we have no idea how many units fail, either from new or some time after use, as the figures aren't published. 

 

The reason failure rates aren't published of course is nothing to do with "majority of AIO coolers perform perfectly"  so failure rated don't justify publication...  if failure rates were very high, manufacturers still wouldn't make failure rates known, simply because it would result in the consumer loosing confidence in the product and sales would be lost.

 

Air coolers aren't at all perfect, as you say, and fans do fail, but a fan failing on an air cooler is a trifling affair, a simple matter of buying a new fan for very little outlay. On the other hand, when an AIO water cooler fails the heat sink itself becomes useless and motherboard and graphics cards are damaged. Then follows a couple of months or more, attempting to get compensation from the cooler manufacturer for the damaged components.

 

As you say, we must do the research and decide for ourselves. For many, AIO coolers are aesthetically more pleasing. And of course many are okay with a small risk of damage from leaks. For that reason there's no way I would deride anyone for making that choice. I have considered the H110 myself in the past.

 

The NH-D15S cools superbly, is very quiet, no pump to fail or become noisy, and absolutely zero chance of leaks. Compared to an AIO cooler with an admittedly small chance of a leak and subsequent component damage... it was an easy choice for me.

[vortex681 806]

 

 

Air coolers aren't at all perfect, as you say, and fans do fail, but a fan failing on an air cooler is a trifling affair, a simple matter of buying a new fan for very little outlay. On the other hand, when an AIO water cooler fails the heat sink itself becomes useless and motherboard and graphics cards are damaged. Then follows a couple of months or more, attempting to get compensation from the cooler manufacturer for the damaged components.

 

AIO coolers that have leaked have tended to do so in the packaging prior to fitting. I can't recall reading about a modern AIO leaking after fitting (that's not to say that they haven't) and if they have a pump or fan failure, which appears no more likely on a recent unit than an air cooler, then the BIOS over-temperature protection should shut the system down before damage occurs. We could argue, with reviews to back up the arguments, about which type is the best but, as I think we both agree, in the end it's down to personal choice.

[martin-w 3,234]

AIO coolers that have leaked have tended to do so in the packaging prior to fitting. I can't recall reading about a modern AIO leaking after fitting

 

 

 

Nope, not true plenty of AIO's have leaked damaging motherboards and graphics cards. Just as many that leak in the packaging. In fact it makes fascinating reading, the endeavours of owners attempting to claim for damaged motherboards and graphics cards. Corsair it has to be said are quite good now regarding this. Other companies aren't. 

 

 

if they have a pump or fan failure, which appears no more likely on a recent unit than an air cooler,

 

 

 

I've never come across a fan [simple tech] dead on arrival, air cooler or AIO. 

 

 

We could argue, with reviews to back up the arguments, about which type is the best but, as I think we both agree, in the end it's down to personal choice.

 

 

Certainly is personal choice. Some are fine with the small chance of leaks and subsequent component damage, some aren't, some prefer an air cooler that can't possibly damage other components as a result of a water leak. By the same token, some dislike the aesthetics of a huge air cooler and prefer the way the rigs look with an AIO. It's down to priorities.

 

But what we can say of course is that an air cooler heat sink can never fail, never leak and can last a lifetime. That can't be said for an AIO. Air cooler heat sinks have no moving parts, AIO's have a pump.

[vortex681 806]

The decision for me had nothing to do with aesthetics; it was based on the most headroom I could get with a big overclock so I went for the Corsair H110i GT. Noctua coolers are very good but ultimately if you want the lowest temperatures you get them with liquid cooling.

 

There's a recent article that reviews the NH-D15S: https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/noctua-nh-d15s-cpu-cooler-review,1.html. It does very well for an air cooler but if you look on page 8 at the overclocked processor under load, the Noctua is 10 degrees hotter than the Corsair. There are plenty of articles that put them closer together but they tend to either compare the older H110 (and not the later H110i GT) or they go for a smaller overclock at a lower voltage.

[martin-w 3,234]

 It does very well for an air cooler but if you look on page 8 at the overclocked processor under load, the Noctua is 10 degrees hotter than the Corsair.

 

 

 

Yep. 10 degrees sounds about right. You can equip the 15S with a second fan of course, which shaves another 2-3 degrees off due to increased static pressure. So that brings you to 7 degrees hotter than the H110i GT. 7 degrees isn't much to be honest. Yes it will increase overclocking headroom a tad, but given that overlcocking is linear in a properly balanced system, the increase in terms of frame rate is very small. Maybe 1 or 2 frames per second.

 

Having said that, if your objective is, as you say, to achieve the most overclocking headroom, all be it a modest improvement in frame rate, then fair enough. 

 

What you get for sacrificing a mere 7 degrees of course is as we've discussed, a heat sink with no moving parts and no chance of leaks. And of course very quiet, which brings me on to another important point...

 

Namely the fan variable! 

 

I believe the fans that come with your H110 are similar in terms of specifications to the D15S, apart from the Noctua having only one fan of course.

 

However, what many AIO manufacturers do is include very high RPM, and thus noisy fans. In a manner of speaking, cheating, to achieve better performance. The Kraken is a good example of this. For that reason, eliminating the fan variable and comparing heat sinks with the same fans is always useful. 

 

But yes, great cooler the H110i GT. Would certainly be my choice if I went AIO.

 

 

 

Direct comparison here, but as you say, not a high overclock. Only one degree in it at 4.4.

 

Where the D15S wins out of course is in terms of noise, much quieter than the H110i GT.

 

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cooling/80538-corsair-hydro-series-h110i-gt/?page=4

 

Pity they didn't try higher overclocks.

[be77solo 125]

I just installed the Corsair H115i in my new build, so far pleased with the performance.  I'm running it on the "quiet" (essentially silent) setting on a 6700K, and even at 4.6ghz with P3Dv3/PMDG 777 temps are in the 50C's.  Idle temps are ~22C.

 

Of course, there are also "balanced" and "performance" settings (balanced is still quiet but can be heard, where as performance sounds about like the inside of my Grumman ha).  Not sure when I'd really need these settings though, guess if I wanted to go crazy with voltage.

 

So, no complaints with the AIO Corsair, it's my first, but has met or exceeded my expectations and was simpler to install than I thought.  Was a bit more expensive than the D15S, which I too have read nothing but great things about.

 

Board wise, I went with the Gigabyte Z170MX Gaming 5, so far no complaints with it either.  Booted right up, has a decent enough BIOS, and has been totally stable, even while overclocking CPU/RAM.

[RaptyrOne 1,398]

I had a very, very disappointing experieince with the Asus Maximus Hero VI board. Huge expectation and massive disappointment. Multiple issues that affected many people globally that can be read about on the Asus ROG forums for those that would care. One of the biggest was the fact that the BIOS clock would freeze. A problem Asus never did really acknowledge or fix. When this happened while flying NGX, all systems would go haywire and AP would disconnect and become broken. This being due to a security protocol in the NGX that requires the BIOS clock to keep time.

 

Bottom line, won't touch Asus boards for a good while, if ever again. I Have just upgraded to i7 6700K and went with a MSI board. Had been very impressed with two mid range boards of theirs that I purchased for my kids PC's (not Z170) - in fact they booted far quicker than my Asus Hero VI ever did.

 

So, I went with the MSI Z170 XPower Gaming Titanium Edition. Got good reviews on most tech review sites I checked in at. Everything I need and none of the features I do not need. Not the cheapest board for sure but if you are going for performance, this is where it starts, not the CPU, RAM or GPU. :wink:

[martin-w 3,234]

I remember the clock issue.

 

Instructions to fix, from Asus, was to flash the BIOS, boot into Windows, shut down and then with power on at the wall, reset the CMOS. Those that weren't successful were the ones that reset the CMOS without power on at the wall. Power needed to be on at wall to clear the firmware.

 

But I guess you tried this?

 

Asus said everyone who did it exactly to their instructions had no more issues.