What am I missing without the GTN mod?

[carlito777 712]

Hi everybody,

 

after having successfully avoided all previous Carenado private jet release, I'm now on the fence of buying the CJ2. I do own the GTN750 but I don't like the idea of putting it in the CJ2 simply because it is so unrealistic. So my question is: What are the main flaws I have to live with when I choose not to use the GTN mod? I can use the other mods, right? I just don't want the GTN.

 

Thanks for your help!

[RW1 615]

What are the main flaws I have to live with when I choose not to use the GTN mod? I can use the other mods, right? I just don't want the GTN.

 

I hear you regarding the GTN in the CJ2, but its such a great jet that i bought it and banged the GTN in her anyway, fear not the Mod Squad are knee deep in the proverbial as we speak working on the mod for owners who choose not to GTN it. The CJ2 is full of bug`s after the sp1 regarding the ap functions but it`s way better imho than other bizjets they(carenado) released, see the thread i linked.

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/486716-showtime-the-long-awaited-panel-upgrade-and-gtnapmods-are-now-available/page-6#entry3406721

[Jakub Compel 8]

 I don't like the idea nonfunctional proline 21  

 

GTN and older model citation jet .. why not also CJ2 ?

 

[xtended 1]

 I don't like the idea nonfunctional proline 21  

Yeah. EagleSoft Citation X has one for more then 7 years. They (Carenado), I'm sure, can do it but don't want somehow. Maybe it's just a business.

[raymar 969]

Hi everybody,

 

after having successfully avoided all previous Carenado private jet release, I'm now on the fence of buying the CJ2. I do own the GTN750 but I don't like the idea of putting it in the CJ2 simply because it is so unrealistic. So my question is: What are the main flaws I have to live with when I choose not to use the GTN mod? I can use the other mods, right? I just don't want the GTN.

 

Thanks for your help!

I h

 

I really can't even comprehend your statement about a GTN being unrealistic in a Citation.

 

I think it is a great improvement and is what Cessna would have installed had they been available. Moving maps, WAAS, integrated coupled approaches. Geez. That is what pilots and operators want and that is why they are installing them. Go to SIJET.com and look around.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[carlito777 712]

I h

 

I really can't even comprehend your statement about a GTN being unrealistic in a Citation.

 

I think it is a great improvement and is what Cessna would have installed had they been available. Moving maps, WAAS, integrated coupled approaches. Geez. That is what pilots and operators want and that is why they are installing them. Go to SIJET.com and look around.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

 

Hi Ray,

 

thanks for your opinion. Of course, you are right. Maybe I should have worded it differently. It's just that I prefer to manage an aircraft through an FMC rather than the touch interface of the GTN. Feels more like an airliner. This is of course my very personal and subjective opinion. But I hear you that the GTN offers more functionality...

 

Best regards

 

Carlo

[GCNorth 7]

So... is the CJ2 not worth purchasing without the GTN750?  I don't own the GTN.

 

Gerry

[Jakub Compel 8]

I don't understand your question .. 

 

CJ2 have default from carenado proline21, GTN 750 for CJ2 is mod (you need purchased GTN750 addon)

[z06z33 763]

Hi everybody,

 

after having successfully avoided all previous Carenado private jet release, I'm now on the fence of buying the CJ2. I do own the GTN750 but I don't like the idea of putting it in the CJ2 simply because it is so unrealistic. So my question is: What are the main flaws I have to live with when I choose not to use the GTN mod? I can use the other mods, right? I just don't want the GTN.

 

Thanks for your help!

It's not unrealistic the Citiation CJ my father flies has a Garmin 400 and 500 they haven't even turned the FMC on in like 10 years

[raymar 969]

Hi Ray,

 

thanks for your opinion. Of course, you are right. Maybe I should have worded it differently. It's just that I prefer to manage an aircraft through an FMC rather than the touch interface of the GTN. Feels more like an airliner. This is of course my very personal and subjective opinion. But I hear you that the GTN offers more functionality...

 

Best regards

 

Carlo

Carlo,

 

In most cases the GTN is used as a primary navigational instrument and the extras are the built in WAAS availability and the 3,000+ new LPV approaches to add to the already numerous ILS approaches. The moving maps, Taxi charts and more up to date world wide database is important to many flight sim pilots.

 

Although the GTN is a touchscreen in real world airplanes, I would guess a great majority of flight sim pilots are using mouse clicks to use the gauge just exactly as you do your FMS. Cllck for click there is not much difference in the use of the FMS or GTN. So when one says they prefer the realism of the FMS over the GTN makes we wonder how realistic all those mouse clicks to use the FMS really is.

 

The biggest difference I see is the almost total 'head down in cockpit' time required to use a mouse to click on the FMS, whereas the GTN is a 'head up in the cockpit' panel mounted instrument with handy click and choose SIDs, STAR, approaches, etc and the ability to store and recall, invert and modify flight plans using airways etc.

 

The final point if you are comparing Carenado products is that if you use the FMS that Carenado designed you cannot fly VATSIM or Pilotedge due to not having a Direct To feature whereas it works perfectly in the GTN. ATC shortcuts makes common use of the Direct feature to cut off doglegs for better flow of overall traffic with mixed speeds.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ray

So... is the CJ2 not worth purchasing without the GTN750?  I don't own the GTN.

 

Gerry

Gerry,

 

That is not a true statement. It is just that the GTN adds a lot more to the enjoyment and adds more flight sim features.

The CJ2 will fly the same with or without the GTN installed. It is in the navigation and approaches that the GTN equipped CJ2 excels. They climb and cruise at the same speeds.

 

Regards,

Ray

[GCNorth 7]

Hi Ray,

 

Other than the lack of Direct To with the Carenado FMS,  what navigation or approach deficiencies are there with the FMS?  Also, since I don't have the GTN750 and probably will not purchase for the foreseeable future, could I use my Reality XP GNS 530 WAAS to overcome the navigation and approach deficiencies?

 

Finally, is there anything in the Non-GTN mod that makes the default FMS more usable?

 

Regards, Gerry

[vonmar 122]

The final point if you are comparing Carenado products is that if you use the FMS that Carenado designed you cannot fly VATSIM or Pilotedge due to not having a Direct To feature whereas it works perfectly in the GTN.

 

Not being able to fly on-line / Pilot Edge would apply to .. possibly to many Carenado (and other developer's) aircraft ?

Been a long time (years) since I flew on line ... lack of controllers for my routes and time of day ... anyway...

 

When flying on line or Pilot Edge ... with Carenado CJ2 or other aircraft .. couple questions.

 

When issued a direct to .. if the controllers initial instructions do not include initial vectors to on-course to the fix:

Is it possible to ask the controller for on course vectors to the fix?

 

Or, knowing the current equipment is not doing DTO 100% (various Carenado aircraft), to include a note/remark/message with the filed flight plan about DTO current limitation?

 

Or, downgrade the current aircraft equipment code when you file the plan with ATC? Like to make it a steaam  gauge flight (Twin baron or Real air duke ATC gauges/Equip Type)?

 

Or, enter the DTO fix twice in the CDU (Carenado CJ2 or any aircraft with FMS/CDU DTO capable FMS) to establish on course?

 

BTW, I do have the GTN750 but prefer to fly the CJ2 V1.1 in the default configuration.

[kamaz74 81]

It's *almost* more unrealistic to use an FMS style computer than a Garmin unit on something like a CJ. We had a Citation Ultra where I used to work that had an ancient KLN90a. The pilots never even touched the Universal FMS.

[raymar 969]

Our CJ2 when it was built from 2002 - 2004 had a choice of 4 different FMS type devices. That KLN90a was in standard install and the others were all priced as upgrades with the Universal Ul1 being the most expensive. GPS units were just starting to show up and most of them were installed by the Owner/Operators and not the Cessna Factory.

At somewhere near the 100 mark of delivered CJ2 aircraft Cessna replaced the huge radio bank with one or two stand alone nav/coms and made a place for a Garmin unit. This is what the Carenado CX90 panel is patterned after.

 

This was also the base case panel for the CJ2+ that came with a Collins FMS that was a lot more tightly integrated with all the other avionics.

 

If the GTN had been available for the CJ2+ I would bet dollars to donuts that would be the avionics package of choice along with the follow on Cj3. The area between the MFD and the copilot's PFD is a perfect fit for the GTN750/650 combo that give you full electronic charts in cockpit, full backup for Nav/Coms, Safe Taxi, and a much better panel for single pilot operation.

 

Regards,

Ray

Not being able to fly on-line / Pilot Edge would apply to .. possibly to many Carenado (and other developer's) aircraft ?

Been a long time (years) since I flew on line ... lack of controllers for my routes and time of day ... anyway...

 

When flying on line or Pilot Edge ... with Carenado CJ2 or other aircraft .. couple questions.

 

When issued a direct to .. if the controllers initial instructions do not include initial vectors to on-course to the fix:

Is it possible to ask the controller for on course vectors to the fix?

 

Or, knowing the current equipment is not doing DTO 100% (various Carenado aircraft), to include a note/remark/message with the filed flight plan about DTO current limitation?

 

Or, downgrade the current aircraft equipment code when you file the plan with ATC? Like to make it a steaam  gauge flight (Twin baron or Real air duke ATC gauges/Equip Type)?

 

Or, enter the DTO fix twice in the CDU (Carenado CJ2 or any aircraft with FMS/CDU DTO capable FMS) to establish on course?

 

BTW, I do have the GTN750 but prefer to fly the CJ2 V1.1 in the default configuration.

I'm not your guy to address all these questions. I don't fly Vatsim, PilotEdge, or with the Carenado FMS. Sorry.

 

Ray

[GCNorth 7]

Ray,

Please see #11 above.

 

Thanks,

Gerry