Have a look at this 777 Cockpit Take-Off

[Alpha Floor 237]

 

 

Jump to minute 3. Note the following:

 

- The big chunk of red on the ND toward which they are taking-off. They must have their reasons, but hey, it's interesting...

- The FO resting his left hand on the yoke like that. That's not a proper technique for grabbing the yoke.

- The FO's watch hanging is going to get stuck at something... 

 

Just posting this as an example that sometimes real pilots are not "exemplary". A PC pilot sees this and then goes saying: "You HAVE to put your inboard hand on top of the horn of the yoke, I saw a real pilot doing it!"

[GolfSierra 5]

 

 

- The FO resting his left hand on the yoke like that. That's not a proper technique for grabbing the yoke.

 

I'm feeling quite uncomfortable by just watching this.

I realize that there are different ways of how to hold a steering wheel in a car, but with a yoke like that, the horns are not meant to be grabbed like this. I totally agree.

Thanks for sharing!

[Alpha Floor 237]

Thanks!

 

 

 

different ways of how to hold a steering wheel in a car

 

Oh don't get me started on that one! hahaha

So many discussions I've had with people not holding the wheel properly... Now I just don't care anymore, I always try to be the one driving to avoid this, haha

[777 340]

He does correct the "steering wheel hold" after takeoff lol.

[rondon9898 84]

Taking off into the red doesn't necessarily mean there will be windshear though, does it? Isn't that really what you're worried about at low level? I'm not arguing, by the way, I'm asking as I'd like to know the answer. Would other pilots have refused to takeoff into the red?

[Guest]

The next time I have to fly anywhere in a 777 I hope one of you guys in the captains seat and not that Bozo! LOL! :-P

[Alpha Floor 237]

Taking off into the red doesn't necessarily mean there will be windshear though, does it?

 

It doesn't, no. Windshear and precipitation are different things. The weather radar on the 777 has a predictive windshear system (PWS). It's independent from the actual GPWS windshear "detection" system (which detects when the plane already IS in windshear). The PWS is not foolproof, as anything that's "predictive" can't be trusted 100%.

 

A map full of red like that is telling you that there's intense storm activity and CBs, which are generally accompanied by turbulence. Also if there's activity under a storm winds are not "unsurprising"; so rolling winds and windshear are a possibility.

 

 

 

Would other pilots have refused to takeoff into the red

 

I don't know. Probably SOP dependent or at Captain's discretion. Pilots must not take-off if there's a reasonable chance of windshear in the area, but as I said, precipitation and windshear are different things.

[skelsey 765]

Not to be the party pooper, but I'm distinctly uncomfortable "armchair quarterbacking" the performance and actions of a crew who are, presumably, qualified and experienced professionals.

 

Bear in mind that in the tropics, heavy rainstorms are very common. The radar shows precipitation. In a tropical squall, you will see lots of red. That does not mean to say that it is automatically dangerous: it requires experience (and training, naturally) to interpret the weather radar returns and judge which area of red is a harmless rainshower and which is a dangerous CB.

 

And seriously -- criticising the way the FO rests (and "rests" is the operative word here, because that is all he is doing having removed it from the thrust levers) his "spare" hand (given he is actually flying the aeroplane with his right hand) on the yoke? Whilst I doubt it's something taught in type training, is it dangerous? Does it cost money? Will it break the aeroplane? Will it cause undue wear and tear on any of the equipment? Is it going to interfere with the other pilot? Will it burn excess fuel? Is it going to distract the FO from carrying out a safety-critical action?

 

If not, then frankly where he chooses to rest his hand is up to him. No?

[Alpha Floor 237]

Simon, regarding the weather itself, I won't argue with you. As I said in my OP, they must have their reasons.

 

But I don't agree in that:

 

 

where he chooses to rest his hand is up to him. No?

 

When the F/O takes off he's flying with BOTH hands on the wheel and BOTH hands must grab it correctly. He shouldn't be "resting" his left hand in the first place.

 

If anyone has seen the AeroLogic 777 taking-off from Hong Kong (PilotsEye) will see how the F/O "correctly" holds the yoke with both hands.

[avgaskoolaid 292]

Not to be the party pooper, but I'm distinctly uncomfortable "armchair quarterbacking" the performance and actions of a crew who are, presumably, qualified and experienced professionals.

No, not "presumably". These people are paid, trained professionals who know PRECISELY what they're doing. It's one thing for simmers to talk about how realistic X or Y is, or have the infamous 'could I land the plane if the pilots died' conversation. It's an entirely different thing to see people who have never touched anything bigger than a 172 criticize what actual airline pilots do in the cockpit. Was there red on the ND? Sure. It his watch dangly? I guess. Should he hold the yoke differently? Maybe. But I have absolutely no place to question anything of the above because 1)I was not there and don't know the context 2)I am not an airline pilot and have not received the years of training these two have. 

 

You call it "armchair quarterbacking", and that may be a bit gentle. I'd call it "debilitating, painfully out-of-place smugness". 

[Alpha Floor 237]

Hamoody, you might be right, but some things are just common sense. Even paid and trained people sometimes do things in an "unorthodox" way. I work as a design engineer and often see engineers with years of experience and university education doing stupid things, I guess this applies to every job.

 

For instance, I don't need to be a real pilot to see what the Asiana 214 pilots did and judge that they didn't know how to fly a 777.

[PMDG777 231]

 

 

For instance, I don't need to be a real pilot to see what the Asiana 214 pilots did and judge that they didn't know how to fly a 777.

 

That accident wasn't down to the pilots not knowing how to fly a 777. They knew how to fly a 777. They know a lot more about flying a 777 than you ever will. It came down to negligence and not being completely situationally aware. The pilot flying was in the checkride stage. New to the type. Every single 777 pilot has been there done that. The captain wasn't paying enough attention and didn't have the systems knowledge required to avoid the accident. Does that mean he can't fly a 777? No. It means he hasn't sat in front of a computer reading through manuals and learning every single ins and outs. Should he have had that knowledge? Of course he should have. That does not mean he cannot fly the aircraft. 

 

I'm seeing an increasing theme with your posts. You have this idea that because you've read through the various 777 docs that you're suddenly a professional on the 777 and your opinion should be higher regarded than others, when in reality you're far from it. You are not a 777 pilot. You probably never will be. These pilots have had years of training and years of experience on that aircraft. They know it better than you or me. You have no right and no place to sit and criticise a pilot's technique when you yourself aren't even a pilot. Sure if a RW 777 pilot had come along and criticised those pilots people might think fair enough, they have a right to being on equal terms. 

[Alpha Floor 237]

Chris, with all of my respect:

 

- You clearly didn't read that accident report because if you had, you wouldn't be saying those things.

- You have no business in saying what I am or will be or will "probably never" be.

- The "you are not a real pilot therefore shut up" argument is kind of annoying and tiresome...

 

Over and out.

[kamaz74 81]

I have to side with Jaime on this one, I too am type rated on the PMDG 777.

[19dcavscout 39]

I agree. I have zero issues in how he is holding the yoke. In fact, usually the yoke is held in the "normal" way for access to the various buttons on it. If he has no use in pressing them, then it doesn't matter how he holds it, as long as he is making positive control. I have no idea how much real world experience Alpha Floor has, but it seems like an arm-chair quarterback situation. 

 

I have seen people hold the controls (Both a cyclic/collective and yoke/throttle setup) in a few different ways, all were TECHNIQUE and perfectly okay. Remember, when training, you train standards and not technique. Show me in the black and white where it says exactly how to hold the yoke. The guy was fine and I would have zero issues flying with him from what I saw.