A2A C182 unflyable in P3Dv3 - anyone else?

[molleh 451]

It would be really helpful if you could record and post a short video so we can see what's going on. Honestly though it seems like it's just a matter of practice and adjustment to your technique. The 182 and Comanche, both of which have large and torque-y 6 cylinder engines, will require some right rudder during the takeoff roll and immediately after take off. *edit to clarify

[LAdamson 240]

It would be really helpful if you could record and post a short video so we can see what's going on. Honestly though it seems like it's just a matter of practice and adjustment to your technique. The 182 and Comanche, both of which have large and torque-y 6 cylinder engines, will require some right rudder immediately after take off.

I like to think of it....................as just holding right rudder through the takeoff roll & initial climb out.  The whole idea is to maintain runway center line, with whatever rudder it takes.  As airspeed increases, the need for right rudder diminishes. 

[molleh 451]

Yep, I edited my post to clarify that.. I think that Toonfan's "problem" probably stems from rudder issues and/or technique.

[Wing 32]

To me p-factor in the A2A GA aircraft is exaggerated. For my money the A2A Cessnas require too much attention and excessive rudder input during takeoff and climb just to keep the wings level. Cranking the rudder trim 100% to the right will help some, but you still need to keep your right foot in it during climb. It almost feels like you're flying in a twin with the right engine out. Taking off with a crosswind from the right compounds the "snapping" problem on lift off due to the weather vane tendency on the ground.

 

If you keep practicing you'll eventually get the hang of it. Create a scenario where you're sitting on the runway ready for takeoff then once you get airborne reset the scenario and keep repeating until you get a feel for it. Make sure both fuel tanks are 100% full. It will help balance things out a little if you add a passenger to the right seat that's the same weight as the pilot.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

The Skylane requires a little right rudder on takeoff and climbout, certainly not to fight your way up. It is a rather tame aircraft in spite of having some real power (great plane for bush flying). There is almost no P-factor that you have to fight at takeoff (like in the early phase of a P-51 take off run for instance).  Needing to trim at 100% or pushing the right rudder all the way right (as in bimotor with a failed engine) are indications of a problem : or the aircraft has a mechanical failure in the Accusim environment or a controller (rudder or aileron) is decalibrated or disconnected. 

 

For the latter, do you check visually from the outside the 3 axis before starting the run : full deflection of rudder, aileron and elevator ? And in flight when you have the lurching issue ?

 

Balancing the load (pax, luggage) and the fuel certainly helps too . No need to fill it up at 100%. I don't as I often take off from rugged and very short strips.

[GHarrall 494]

To me p-factor in the A2A GA aircraft is exaggerated. For my money the A2A Cessnas require too much attention and excessive rudder input during takeoff and climb just to keep the wings level. Cranking the rudder trim 100% to the right will help some, but you still need to keep your right foot in it during climb. It almost feels like you're flying in a twin with the right engine out. Taking off with a crosswind from the right compounds the "snapping" problem on lift off due to the weather vane tendency on the ground.

 

If you keep practicing you'll eventually get the hang of it. Create a scenario where you're sitting on the runway ready for takeoff then once you get airborne reset the scenario and keep repeating until you get a feel for it. Make sure both fuel tanks are 100% full. It will help balance things out a little if you add a passenger to the right seat that's the same weight as the pilot.

Something terribly wrong with your setup then. The 182 is a better 172. The handling is still as docile as it is in real life. I have no such issues with excessive rudder input on my a2a 182

[Wing 32]

Something terribly wrong with your setup then.

 

If that were the case it would manifest itself with other aircraft. RealAir is noted for their realistic flight models and I have no problems at all with the Legacy on take off. A bit of right rudder during the take off roll and crank in some rudder trim during climb out and all is nice and stable. This, plus the fact that I'm definitely not alone in experiencing the A2A exaggerated p-factor issue, tells me there is nothing wrong with my setup.

 

I don't know why some people say it's "docile" and others have problems. Maybe your realism settings are not cranked up all the way to full? It's not always possible to diagnose why one person's system behaves differently than another in a forum thread. I have 35 years of flight simming experience and several hundred hours of high-wing Cessna time in real life so I feel like I have a good handle on how to set up my sim and what to expect in terms of a realistic flight model.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

In the prop department, I regularly fly eight A2A aircraft, the RealAir T-Duke (flew the Legacy in FSX too) and the Sibwings An-2, cranked up at full realism. Warthog HOTAS and CH pedals.  None of them, except two, have a strong P-factor which makes the takeoff run tricky  the P-40 and the P-51 and this is, of course to be expected (actually it is not the P factor alone which makes taking off the P-51 an interesting proposition but that is another story) . The A2A GA aircraft are no different from the Sibwings or the RealAir's. A credible flight model. The A2A 182 is a tame aircraft but with enough power to extricate you from these short dirt runways in PNG or Alaska. 

 

A good way to diagnose any issue of that sort would be to visualize the deflection of the three axis, from the outside, before the run and when a strong lurching to the left occurs. And to check in the accusim maintenance hangar that no components is broken/stuck. Also, keep in mind  to reset the triim as an A2A aircraft will keep them from one session to the other contrary to a RA or SW bird. If you don't you will take off with the trim of the last landing.

 

 Also, I had a couple of issues of that kind  when I moved to v3 from 2.5. Weird behaviour of some aircraft , prop or jet. The P3D v3 default calibration of my setup came screwed, with, for instance, a spectrum of values cut by half for the rudder, and one axis (I don't remember whether that was the ailerons or the rudder) declared twice. A general review of the controllers assignment is not superfluous.

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

Might be a good idea to get out and just look at the rudder

[GHarrall 494]

If that were the case it would manifest itself with other aircraft. RealAir is noted for their realistic flight models and I have no problems at all with the Legacy on take off. A bit of right rudder during the take off roll and crank in some rudder trim during climb out and all is nice and stable. This, plus the fact that I'm definitely not alone in experiencing the A2A exaggerated p-factor issue, tells me there is nothing wrong with my setup.

 

I don't know why some people say it's "docile" and others have problems. Maybe your realism settings are not cranked up all the way to full? It's not always possible to diagnose why one person's system behaves differently than another in a forum thread. I have 35 years of flight simming experience and several hundred hours of high-wing Cessna time in real life so I feel like I have a good handle on how to set up my sim and what to expect in terms of a realistic flight model.

lol, I have the realism set at full, also have approx 30 years of sim experience and approx 150 hours in 150's, 152's and 172's.

 

I also have the real air legacy and find flying a2a 182 no different in terms of p factor or need of exaggerated rudder input. I don't know why you do but it seems something at your end. Perhaps not system but maybe wear and tear as part of accusim? What you are experiencing is not normal. hope you get to the bottom of it but it's not part of the a2a flight dynamics modelling.

 

Edit.....if you are using the in game flight control settings and calibration make sure it's at full sensitivity.

[Toonfan 1]

Sounds like a few people have had issues. Clearly this is a fantastic airplane when it works well, but some systems don't agree with it.

 

Following some suggestions I have assigned my controls to FSUIPC and have seen a dramatic improvement - no more lurching to the left.

 

While I would not describe flight as "docile", it is no longer a battle.

 

Thanks all.

[Wing 32]

Sounds like a few people have had issues. Clearly this is a fantastic airplane when it works well, but some systems don't agree with it.

 

Following some suggestions I have assigned my controls to FSUIPC and have seen a dramatic improvement - no more lurching to the left.

 

While I would not describe flight as "docile", it is no longer a battle.

 

Thanks all.

 

Toonfan I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

I do have FCUIPC which up until this point I've mainly used for interfacing with an external GPS and the occasional joystick button reassignment. I will have to experiment with using it for joystick tuning and see if I can get better results than the default P3D control options.

[GHarrall 494]

All my controls are through fsuipc. Maybe that's the magic bullet.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

All my controls are through fsuipc. Maybe that's the magic bullet.

I do not use FSUIPC for anything (I don't have it) and the 182 works great. A treat to take off with at full realism.

 

If FSUIPC helps it means that the default calibration and/or assignation of axis used in the computers where there is a problem, are screwed.

[racklefratz 4]

Following some suggestions I have assigned my controls to FSUIPC and have seen a dramatic improvement - no more lurching to the left.  While I would not describe flight as "docile", it is no longer a battle.

 

 

Someone posted that if it takes "FSUIPC" to make it work, something else is wrong.  I agree, and my MFG pedals and Brunner force feedback yoke work fine without FSUIPC.

 

I didn't see anyone else mention it, so I will.  The C182 shouldn't require any gymnastics to fly.  If I was seeing random erratic control behavior, one thing I'd check would be the P3D axis assignments.  Sometimes, P3D assigns duplicate axis assignments, e.g., rudder axes to more than one controller.  I'd look to make sure only the proper controller axes are assigned, and delete the others.  If controllers are assigned and calibrated correctly, the C 182 should be stable in all flight regimes.

 

One last thing - someone recommended forward pressure on the yoke to "hold the airplane on the ground" on takeoff.  Don't.  That's what elevator trim is for.  Use the takeoff setting for trim and forget the yoke.  If trim is set properly, no yoke pressure should be required either direction, and the airplane should fly itself off the ground with very light back pressure on the yoke, if any at all.