Question for RW Pilots

[Guest aca_dia]

The H.C. Smith book is great if you are looking for a digestible book on aerodynamics. The other common (but much more technical) text is "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators", but it

[planenut 19]

Hi All,Thanks for your inputs. Just confirms my suspicions that flying a real one is easier (as I remember). I guess my biggest gripe is that even though it is harder to maintain altitude in FS, the altitude changes so rapidly. This seems to happen especially when I am distracted in the cockpit such as changing radio frequencies, looking out the window, etc. Guess we all have to live with it in FS. I just hate to keep depending on the auto pilot to maintain altitude.Jim

[Guest beana51]

I like the depictions in my copy of STICK and RUDDER.Learning cannot get simpler than that. Even If you could not read,you still got the lesson.Many of us could not read that good any how.Most young kids then, came out of grade school.THATS it. Still however they made good pilots. Pure instinct,like bike riding I mean a Cub don't need a degree to fly. Most of those guys were farmers. One pic is worth,well "DA PLANE", or yourself, in the real world.On the Sim?,well no problem.Just pause,refer to the navel aviators book,have a coke,see whats on the TV, and no problem. Reminds me of my stick and rudder days.In tandem planes ,the instructor had a habit of rapping you on the head with any thing he could roll up.Glad it was not a copy of STICK and RUDDER. We both did read that book.That would surly drive home my errors into my brain. A weighty book ya know.And thats why now I can say "I ARE A PILOT" :-doh HAVE FUN VIN!

[LAdamson 240]

>>Thanks for your inputs. Just confirms my suspicions that>flying a real one is easier (as I remember). I guess my>biggest gripe is that even though it is harder to maintain>altitude in FS, the altitude changes so rapidly. This seems>to happen especially when I am distracted in the cockpit such>as changing radio frequencies, looking out the window, etc. >Guess we all have to live with it in FS. I just hate to keep>depending on the auto pilot to maintain altitude.>With a bit of tweaking the throttle as well as trim, and NOT looking at the digital altitude readouts, which seemingly are always going up or down.............you can somewhat trim various models, but it still seems tougher than the real thing. But on the other hand, depending on what the real thing is, many don't stay at a constant altitude either.Therfore, if you have an auto-pilot for altitude, and any distance is involved; even if it's 10 or 20 miles through Class B airspace, then go ahead and use the A/P. Most have more precision than "humans" anyway!L.Adamson

[aerdt 0]

I have to agree with the previous posters. Real-life flying is easier, because you feel the forces, you feel the force of the pedals on the ground and a plane is much, much easier to trim in real life. Also, you are familiar with the switches in real life and don't have to hold the throttle with one hand in the simulator while fishing for some switch with the mouse (if you don't have it mapped). You also have the "full environmental" awareness, which makes it much easier to act and react.Just my 2 cents...

[yellow5 0]

Speaking from experience flying a real aircraft is much easier that FS. A simulator doesn't simulate G forces like a real airplane, unless you are training in a million+ dollar set up. Simulators are great for teaching scanning of instruments, proceedures, etc. But there is no replacement for the real thing. In a real airplane I can feel and see what the plane is doing. In a simulator I can only respond to what the gauges are telling me...Kevin

[Guest thegut97]

I have to agree with everything that has been said, it is much easier to control the airplane in the real world than on flight simulator. I find myself always flying with the autopilot on when flying FS because the controls are just to twitchy. In the real world none of the planes I fly have autopilot, but they are easy to trim and maintain level flight with. David

[brucek 38]

We all seem to be agreeing here :). I'm wondering what this outcome to the original poster's questions means for him. Is this what you expected to hear? It sure does explain some of the difficulties in manually flying a plane in FS. Of course it's no factor if what you want to do in FS is fly a B744 on auto-pilot and use V-NAV, etc. Since the pitch axis distortions (at least) seem to be common to more software products than just FS (our Frasca simulator (FAA approved for logging time) has this same issue too), I'm not sure why this is so hard to model- but then again I'm not a software programmer. I often wonder if sacrificing some other aspect of the aircraft's flight model would fix this.Bruce.

[Guest av84fun]

<>You are correct.

[Guest av84fun]

We are all creatures of our own experience but I would strongly disagree that flying a PC sim is more difficult than flying ITRW.There are lots of reasons why I think RW flying is clearly more difficult but just to name a few, the modeling of contstantly changing wind direction and speed (both horizontally and virtically) are not well modeled in the sim environment.ITRW the wind is nearly always in a state of constant change...just look at flags or windsocks. Such changes require near constant pilot input...or an engaged autopilot.In addition, regarding ILS approaches the constant chage in wind direction and speed during the descent makes it MUCH harder to track the localizer and glideslope INTW in my opinion.Regarding VOR navigation, most GA VOR reciever heads are VERY squirly (sp?) and that reality is not modeled in PC sims to any meaningful degree.Then, there is the motion the is present ITRW but not in the sim. That adds a whole new dimension.Finally, we VERY few exceptions, the landing aspect of PC simulation is ultra-unrealistic in nearly all PC sim aircraft. Some are better than others but few, if any, "nail" the realities of landing an airplane ITRW.Absent are realistic forces such as ground effect, bounce and the related "ballooning" tendency when overly fast airspeeds are employed at the flair.In most sim aircraft, you can just "fly it on" at excessive airspeeds and descent rates of hundres of fps and get a "chirp and stick" landing. That does NOT happen in real life landings.I think that PC sims are GREAT...really GREAT for training in the basics of flying and especially useful in learning instrument flight but I would not want to ride with a zero time "pilot" during the take off or landing phases of flight, regardless of how experienced a sim pilot that person might be.Regards,JimRegards,Jim

[Guest thegut97]

I understand what you are saying Jim. I was refering to the flight controls in flight simulator are to sensitive compared to real world controls. That is the only thing that is easier in real life. Everything else is more difficult and requires more skill in a real airplane. Plus, in the real world you are playing for keeps there is no such thing as crashing and hitting the reset button. I guess more clarification is needed in this thread so people do not get the wrong idea about real world flying.David

[Guest TWVA395]

I couldn't agree more with Jim. Real world flying isn't easy. And for sensitive flight controls, FSUIPC can be very useful in tweaking them.Ken Weik [link:maam.org|MAAM-SIM][link:library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=root&SearchTerm=kenneth+weik&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View]My AFCADs

[Geofa 108]

I don't think anyone said Real World Flying is easy. The original poster asked:"I am curious as to whether real world pilots feel that it is easier to fly real airplanes or flight simulator-that is, the acutal process of physically handling the plane".The actual process of physically handling the plane I think is much easier in RW-there one can see the 3 dimensions and not deal with one flat small view, feel seat of the pants, and most importantly not deal with quirky and sensitive controls, which despite being tweaked by fsuipc are still far to quirky and don't give at all the right RW feel. Obviously imho :-).http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest TWVA395]

Yes. I meant "easy" in comparison to flight simulator. I agree with most of what you said. Your situational awareness tends to be greater in the real thing, but I think procedures and the majority of flying is more challenging in the air than in the sim. As for FSUIPC, I guess a lot depends on what you're tweaking... whether it be a joystick, yoke, pedals, etc. (and who made it.)http://www.kthxdone.com/images/kw_ft.jpgKen Weik [link:maam.org|MAAM-SIM][link:library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=root&SearchTerm=kenneth+weik&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View]My AFCADs

[planenut 19]

As I said on my original post, I remember as a student pilot having problems maintaining altitude. I overcame this problem without too much difficulty after getting some experience. I haven't flown in over 10 years and once I got into FS it just seems like I am constantly fighting to control altitude because the altitude changes so rapidly. I didn't know if others were having the same problem that I have but it sounds like it is a common gripe about the flight dynamics of FS. In FS I normally fly small GA or business jets and the problem is common with all of them. I just don't like to always rely on the auto pilot. Makes me feel like a passenger.Again, thanks for all the interesting replys. At least I now know that it just isn't my ineptitude in puter flying.Jim