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DTG Flight School - Approach & Landing Lesson

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Jim, everyone who buys Flight School will get the DA42, albeit 60 days after pre-purchasers get it. Also, what one gets is all one will get. There will be no DLC for Flight School. Period.

Guess you missed the post where that was already addressed.

 

-Jim


Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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Guess you missed the post where that was already addressed.

Jim, I didn't miss it. It came after I made my previous reply. I tend not to wait until I've read every post before posting a reply. Completely aside from which this very issue was clarified about 200 posts ago in the very long "Ask DTG..." thread. Perhaps you missed that one! :unknw: :Big Grin:

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Fr. Bill    

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Nope, didn't miss it at all, as I read every post.  Whether every post made sense or was relevant is a different story.

 

-Jim


Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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I dropped the rose tinted glasses a long time ago.  I have wishes like everyone else, but am not disappointed that certain wishes haven't been met yet.  I always looked at P3D as an evolution and always will.  I see so many people bashing versions because those versions never met to their own expectations.  There's an old saying about pleasing people, and that goes with just about anything that is created.  The eskimos want ice water, I want a million dollars, others want world peace but in the end, reality rules.

 

One lingering question though is that DTG claims to have listened to the community, but to what extent?  I doubt they really listen to the little people, and I wouldn't expect they would.  They turn to the supposed experts in the community, and that's where I think the breakdown occurs.

 

Jim, I want to start by saying please dont take what I am saying too personally, because I like you. But, the irony in your statements is astounding. You are the one who came here bashing a sim that isnt even out yet and accusing people of "blissful ignorance" yet you dont even understand the DLC structure of DTG Flight School.

 

Second, you talk about DTG not listening to the little people, but in what universe would Lockheed Martin every listen to us? They dont even begin to talk about what will be in their latest releases until 24 hours before. DTG on the other hand got feedback on their early screen shots, and now are going back to adjust lighting and sky textures. 

 

You blindly come in here to hold up your P3D flag and parade it around while failing to see any of the upside of this product, who it is meant for, and what it means for the future of flight simulation (even if you choose not to use it). 

  • Upvote 7

Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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I'm sure DTG's sim will be good, but your characterizations of P3D are extremely cynical and glossed over, with some falsehoods and plenty of omissions.

 

That's not anymore fair then people who are bashing DTG's work.

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Well, then tell me please what you can see in this little advertisement video of DTG Flight School what you will not find in the Flight School of FSX or MS Flight?

 

A future! :smile:

Ah...! Silly me!! I must have been doing the crossword when my instructor was explaining about downwind, base and final. No wonder he looked a bit miffed when I strafed the Tower, beat up a couple of hangars and landed sideways in the Car Park. :Whistle:

 

LOL! Thats good. I felt the feedback and constant dialog from the instructor was very good and was something I was hoping for in this simulator. So for me the content is very encouraging. Certainly it feels more connected, but without playing through the lessons I'll not know for sure. 

I don't know! Building a whole simulator to provide instructional content that could be provided by an addon to an existing simulator? Seems to me that the main grip with all Flight Simulators is performance and looking at that video its not delivered. New comers to flight Simulation are going to be put off flight simulation by stutters in game play than seasoned flight simmers are. And as new comers as apposed to these who are knowledgeable, they will not have a clue where to begin to get smooth game play. I would say that the only major outstanding issue with Flight Sim is performance.

 

Is the performance really as bad as you are making out? Are you sure you are not looking at this through veteran tinted water-cooled alienware spectacles? I've seen videos which appear smoother than this from insomnia i57 so it could be video capturing issues, but that aside we've yet to see the final product. I'm certainly not seeing enough from a performance standpoint which could put off new flyers unless we know it's terrible on moderately performing systems.

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That is exactly what they are doing but according to Microsoft they couldn't make any changes to the code when they got FSX from Microsoft and sell it as Microsoft Flight Simulator X : Steam Edition.

 

For the people wanting a new simulator you can either go P3D (Improved FSX) or wait for NextGen Flight Simulator  http://nexgenflightsim.com/. I'm afraid you'll be waiting a long time.

I'll gladly welcome the improvements of FSX in the form of DTG Flight Simulator. Looking forward to this DTG Flight School release.

 

I don't follow.  You seem to be saying that Dovetail aren't allowed to change the code.

Seriously?  They just hit the "Build me a 64 bit version" button and that's the end of it?

I suspect its a little more complicated than that and that changing code will be necessary.

 

Besides which Stephen from Dovetail already talked about them replacing certain parts of the simulation where needed and where convenient.

 

And seriously.  I bought P3D v2 for $200 and used it for a year or so.

I've seen v3.

Its not imho more than FSX that's been shined up a bit.

This is a video released almost a month before initial release of Flight School.

P3D has been out for several years, is a premium product and is still a 32-bit product living at least partly on people's collections of FSX payware that they still want to use.

 

I think its too early to judge Flight School.  I don't think its too early to judge P3D.

  • Upvote 3

Tony Holmes

xplane 12, MSFS, Windows 10, Ryzen 5600x, 32gb, RX 6800XT.

 

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The presentation seems fine. 

 

The lesson content itself bugs me a bit. The descent is too gradual and gets the plane really low too soon (enough that I'd be uncomfortable doing it that way in real life). Once he enters his base leg at that altitude, there's zero chance he's making the runway with an engine out. I've never in my life rolled out on final at 250 feet either (he again wouldn't of made the runway had the engine quit at that point). The pattern itself was way too large. I'm typically on base in a Cherokee for 5-8 seconds in real life (depending on winds), but he flew that base leg for a full 45 seconds. They should move the markers in more and tighten up the pattern a bunch. That would correct all these issues. 

 

But I'm a pilot being picky I guess. It's just a game in the end. 

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Okay, sorry about that rant just now I just wonder how people can simultaneously be a fan of P3D and yet describe (the as yet unreleased) Flight School as nothing new, just a rehash of FSX with a bit of eye candy and a few bug fixes.

 

Regarding the video, my reaction was 'meh'.  The Supercub didn't look that great and the viewpoint reminded me a little of MS Flight.

Set against that, the scenery looked pretty reasonable (and surely OrbX will have put a few distinctive visual features around the airfield).

There were no shadows but that is way down my checklist of features I'm looking for, nice eye candy but not as important as other stuff.

We've also been promised TrackIR support so the viewpoint presumably will change.

 

I agree with Bonchie that the approach seemed rather low.

I thought the instructor was reasonable in terms of presentation.

I'd always planned to get the LAPL as quickly as I could and then fly the Cherokee at the airfield in the video where possible.

(My reasoning for that being that I wanted to get the LAPL first.  Martin had said it was optional and wouldn't prevent further progress if you didn't want to do it, so presumably you never need to touch the Supercub if you don't want to)

 

I'd much rather they'd licensed A2A's J3 Cub than feature this Supercub, perhaps adding a proper turn coordinator, a minute hand on the altimeter and a standard radio.

But its $15 so they probably weren't going to do that.

 

All in all it looks promising I think.

 

Oh yeah, and the compass/mission pointer thing.

You can turn that off in FSX.

I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case in Flight School.

So if its not your bag, turn it off.  Problem solved.


Tony Holmes

xplane 12, MSFS, Windows 10, Ryzen 5600x, 32gb, RX 6800XT.

 

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Well, then tell me please what you can see in this little advertisement video of DTG Flight School what you will not find in the Flight School of FSX or MS Flight?

 

In terms of Content? Nothing.

  As a rudimentary introduction to the concept of executing a basic approach and landing why would anything change? The fundamental principles are exactly the same today as they were when MS first introduced the concept into Flight Simming. The lesson is still a lesson irrespective of how, when or where it is taught and/or learned. It is however, pleasing to note that DTG seem to be approaching the subject in a slightly lighter vein than previous iterations of the genre - a topic that Martin has already alluded to in his posts - as an attempt to not discourage, overwhelm or dishearten newbie simmers.

 

In terms of Visuals? Everything.

  I feel perfectly confident in stating that, had I been afforded the luxury of gazing out from a high-quality virtual cockit at that extremely realistic (hybrid?) Orbx scenery - on a 64bit platform to boot - whilst being verbally harangued by Rod Machado many, many moons ago then I would probably have been too distracted to even pass my first Check Ride!! 

 

I firmly believe that first-timers are going to be very pleasantly surprised with DTG Flight School - for that is exactly what it is ... A Flight School. Come the release of the 'full-blown' Simulator later in the Year then, by all means, we can pick over the foibles, perceived shortcomings and disappointments to our hearts' content (as only us Veteran Simmers seem able to do). In the meantime I take my hat off to DTG for having the Commercial foresight to be split-launching their product in this way.

 

As always - there will be an extremely vocal minority who will sit on the sidelines poking it with a sharp stick - but - I wager that they will be far outnumbered by the sheer volume of new converts to our hobby that this product will engender.

 

I reiterate my original question; Which part of the phrase 'Flight School' are you failing to understand....? 

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The only thing I'm curious about is just how the lessons develop further.

Martin was very specific in saying these lessons weren't going to just be a voice over like FSX's old lessons....but that's exactly what they look like

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Dovetail, what are you doing???

 

When I took my lessons I was to work with visual cues when flying base leg/approach. I was supposed to look for the runway and not just blindly follow the instructor's heading call outs! Unrealistic. Lazy.

 

What is that blue hue on the horizon supposed to be?

 

Overall not impressed.

And I am tired of the regurgitated FSX look.

 

But then, I am not your target customer... But I hoped for a bit more effort to make me excited about the upcoming flightsim......

  • Upvote 2

Most of what is said on the Internet may be the same thing they shovel on the regular basis at the local barn.

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But then, I am not your target customer....

 

Remember Flight School is as much for DTG to get there feet wet in flight simulation as it is for the gamer. I'm sure the experience will improve but Flight School isn't the product for DTG to be judged with right now. For me it's refreshing that DTG are taking in the feedback and reacting to it. That's enough for me to say thanks and please continue.

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There sure seems to be a lot of negativity in this and other threads toward a product that is not even intended for the experienced simmers making such posts. Flight School is not targeted at established flight simmers nor is meant to teach anyone how to fly a plane properly. Martin and others at DTG have repeatedly stated that Flights School's main goal is to attract new interest to flight simulation. To me that means make it inexpensive, simple, fun, easy, and don't require the latest fasted CPU and GPU to enjoy it. I expect something along the lines of an updated FSX with 64bit, limited planes, limited setting options, and an improved default scenery. I do not expect a replacement for FSX nor P3D.

 

With regards to DTG Flight Simulator, DTG has already stated many times that it is based on FSX so I would not be expecting a new ground breaking core. What happened to all those that were of the opinion that the only solution to all our problems was 64 bit and a break from existing addon compatibility? That is exacting what DTG is providing with DTG Flight Simulator. I would buy and be happy with DTG Flight Simulator if it only was a 64bit FSX...with an open SDK of course. It has already been announced that DTG is working with ORBX on the scenery so I would expect some optimization of the terrain engine from that partnership. We don't know yet what other developer DTG is partnering with.

 

So far Martin and DTG have had a much more open dialog with the community than a lot of other developers and they appear to trying to address a lot of the concerns posted on these forums. It would be nice if that continued. What do you say we cut DTG some slack, show some respect and encouragement in our comments, and lets see what they provide. And lets not lose sight of the fact they do need to make a profit while addressing our demands.

 

I hate to come across like a scolding nanny but if I were DTG I'd be losing interest in posting here based on the demanding tone and non constructive criticism in some of the comments that I've read.

 

Ted

  • Upvote 12

3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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Well said Ted ..

 

to me looks good so far and im looking foward to the full sim at the end of the year .....  . I cant get my head around the idea that some people who had blown a chunk of cash to serve as a beta tester of a OLD software with a few updates and riding that old 32bit  cant say anything positive about something newer ?????  

 

to Martin at DTG and the crew :keep up the good work guys and dont let the negative few stop you from feeling welcome here at AVSIM .....

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